Dodd/Kucinich 08': Election Blu-Galoo

[DCDave]

And Andrew I understand you're excited to call this thing for your boy, but it ain't over yet.

no, i know, i'm just trying to be optimistic for once in my life. also, i really do have a gut feeling on this one, that this is the way things are going. we'll see, though, you're right. if there's one thing you can't do in american politics, it's count out the clintons.

It's actually you can't count out BILL Clinton. And he's been doing more harm than good.   Andrew Sullivan's Blog is GREAT for election coverage.

[Thermofusion]

I've said it more than a few times already, but it still breaks my heart to watch Bill Clinton reduce himself to the level of designated smear peddler when I used to hold him in the highest of esteem.  I think the Daily Show made a joke that he's overcompensating for cheating on his wife by being extra-involved, extra-vigorous and extra-defensive on her campaign trail...and honestly, if my raunchy affair had played out after-the-fact in the media and public conciousness to the degree that it did with Clinton?  Not only would I have an insanely massive guilt complex about it, but I'd probably go a little crazy trying to publicly demonstrate an unwavering devotion to my wife, too.

[Courtney]

I've said it more than a few times already, but it still breaks my heart to watch Bill Clinton reduce himself to the level of designated smear peddler when I used to hold him in the highest of esteem.  I think the Daily Show made a joke that he's overcompensating for cheating on his wife by being extra-involved, extra-vigorous and extra-defensive on her campaign trail...and honestly, if my raunchy affair had played out after-the-fact in the media and public conciousness to the degree that it did with Clinton?  Not only would I have an insanely massive guilt complex about it, but I'd probably go a little crazy trying to publicly demonstrate an unwavering devotion to my wife, too.

I agree that he has stepped over the line, in the same way that the Obama clan has misrepresented Hillary policy in their mailings and tv spots. But questioning his motives is futile. Maybe he just honestly believes that she is the best candidate.

I find it frustrating to hear people be incredulous and make a million excuses about why Hillary has support: Bill must have a guilty conscience about his affair. White supremacists don't want to vote for a black man. Women are dumb and are just voting because of gender. ENOUGH.

Sure, Hillary isn't the perfect candidate, but neither is Barack. Given the political process it's almost automatic at this point that we're going to get two moderate, big business-oriented candidates vying for the nomination. For voters for whom political experience, health care policy and the economy are important aspects of the upcoming administration, it makes complete sense to vote for Hillary.

[elpollodiablo]

Yep

Also totally agree with you w/r/t people speculating as to Bill's motivations in this, dragging up all this  bullshit about fidelity and their history that is totally beside the point and has no relevance whatsoever

[Thermofusion]

agreed

[jebreject]

If Clinton gets the nom, I'm voting for this guy in November.

[elpollodiablo]

He basically looks like Will Oldham after a punch to the grill

[dieblucasdie]

Yep

Also totally agree with you w/r/t people speculating as to Bill's motivations in this, dragging up all this  bullshit about fidelity and their history that is totally beside the point and has no relevance whatsoever

I'd even say it's borderline offensive. 

[dieblucasdie]

I've said it more than a few times already, but it still breaks my heart to watch Bill Clinton reduce himself to the level of designated smear peddler when I used to hold him in the highest of esteem.  I think the Daily Show made a joke that he's overcompensating for cheating on his wife by being extra-involved, extra-vigorous and extra-defensive on her campaign trail...and honestly, if my raunchy affair had played out after-the-fact in the media and public conciousness to the degree that it did with Clinton?  Not only would I have an insanely massive guilt complex about it, but I'd probably go a little crazy trying to publicly demonstrate an unwavering devotion to my wife, too.

I agree that he has stepped over the line, in the same way that the Obama clan has misrepresented Hillary policy in their mailings and tv spots. But questioning his motives is futile. Maybe he just honestly believes that she is the best candidate.

I find it frustrating to hear people be incredulous and make a million excuses about why Hillary has support: Bill must have a guilty conscience about his affair. White supremacists don't want to vote for a black man. Women are dumb and are just voting because of gender. ENOUGH.

Sure, Hillary isn't the perfect candidate, but neither is Barack. Given the political process it's almost automatic at this point that we're going to get two moderate, big business-oriented candidates vying for the nomination. For voters for whom political experience, health care policy and the economy are important aspects of the upcoming administration, it makes complete sense to vote for Hillary.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of women voting for her because she's a woman, just like there are a lot of African-Americans voting for Obama because he's African-American.  With the "white supremacist" bit, I assume you're talking about all that "Bradley Effect" bullshit that was peddled around as explanation for why the polls were wrong in NH, which, I agree, total stupidity. 

I agree with where you're coming from here, though, there are plenty of valid reasons one might like Clinton more (though I'd really like to hear why you prefer her healthcare plan).

[DCDave]

Burnt Orange Report is predicting that Obama will win Texas if it were held tomorrow.

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4937

[Andrew_TSKS]

the Obama clan has misrepresented Hillary policy in their mailings and tv spots.

i would like to see some proof that this has happened. i've been following this whole thing pretty closely, and this is the first time i've heard anyone say this.

also:

For voters for whom political experience, health care policy and the economy are important aspects of the upcoming administration, it makes complete sense to vote for Hillary.

i'll give you political experience, and i'll further admit that clinton and obama are about equal where the economy is concerned, but... health care policy? you approve of making it illegal not to buy health insurance, regardless of people's income? you approve of wage-garnishing?

this kind of policy already exists in massachusetts, and it hasn't gone too well thus far.

[davy]

Burnt Orange Report is predicting that Obama will win Texas if it were held tomorrow.

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4937

man, if that happened, this game would be so over.

[Andrew_TSKS]

If Clinton gets the nom, I'm voting for this guy in November.

I’ll do away with all tax deductions for over $12,000 income. Instead, there will be a flat tax of 10% on annual income of less than one million dollars for an individual and less than five million dollars for a corporation. But the flat tax will jump to 75% on annual income exceeding these limits.

hahahah wow.

[davy]

And Andrew I understand you're excited to call this thing for your boy, but it ain't over yet.

no, i know, i'm just trying to be optimistic for once in my life. also, i really do have a gut feeling on this one, that this is the way things are going.

isn't it nice to have a good feeling about politics for a change? the only other time i've felt real optimism and pride like this was when i volunteered for ken salazar's u.s. senate campaign in colorado and we beat out the favored pete coors (yes, the beer baron). that was awesome...almost took the sting out of losing the state to W in the presidential election.

[Thermofusion]

the Obama clan has misrepresented Hillary policy in their mailings and tv spots.

i would like to see some proof that this has happened. i've been following this whole thing pretty closely, and this is the first time i've heard anyone say this.

Read about it here:
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/02/14/clinton-comes-out-swinging-vs-barack-obama/

"-on a new Obama mailer in OH attacking her on NAFTA:
“When my opponent puts out a mail piece with all sorts of false claims about my position on NAFTA, working men and women know the truth.  You know I’ve been working to help create good jobs in New York and across America.  That I have plans to create five million new, green collar jobs.  And that my opponent doesn’t have much experience creating jobs at all.”

Then read this piece from the Huffington Post which rips Clinton to shreds over it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/hillary-clinton-pretends-_b_86747.html

Hillary Clinton has made statements unequivocally trumpeting NAFTA as the greatest thing since sliced bread. The Buffalo News reports that back in 1998, Clinton attended the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, and thanked praised corporations for mounting "a very effective business effort in the U.S. on behalf of NAFTA." Yes, you read that right: She traveled to Davos to thank corporate interests for their campaign ramming NAFTA through Congress.

On November 1, 1996, United Press International reported that on a trip to Brownsville, Texas, Clinton "touted the president's support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying it would reap widespread benefits in the region."

The Associated Press followed up the next day noting that Hillary Clinton touted the fact that "the president would continue to support economic growth in South Texas through initiatives such as the North American Free Trade Agreement."

In her memoir, Clinton wrote, "Senator Dole was genuinely interested in health care reform but wanted to run for president in 1996. He couldn't hand incumbent Bill Clinton any more legislative victories, particularly after Bill's successes on the budget, the Brady bill and NAFTA."

Yes, we are all expected to just forget that, so that Hillary Clinton's campaign can manufacture supposed "outrage" that anyone would say she supported NAFTA - all at a time her chief strategist, Mark Penn, simultaneously heads a firm that is right now pushing to expand NAFTA into South America.

[Andrew_TSKS]

hah! i knew that was bullshit!

[slow west vultures]

on the lighter side of the campaign trail (the only side i've been keeping up with)  this is why i shuddered at even the thought of a huckabee presidency



from this article

http://stereogum.com/archives/rock-the-vote-unless-youre-republican_008113.html#more

Dear Gov. Huckabee:

It has come to my attention that your campaign's use of my song More Than a Feeling and my band's name BOSTON has resulted in a great deal of false information, which it now appears may exist permanently on the Internet.

While I'm flattered that you are fond of my song, I'm shocked that you would use it and the name BOSTON to promote yourself without my consent.

Your campaign's use of More Than a Feeling, coupled with the representation of one of your supporters as a member "of BOSTON" clearly implies that the band BOSTON, and specifically one of its members, has endorsed your candidacy, neither of which is true.

I wrote and arranged More Than a Feeling, engineered and produced the recording, and actually played all the guitars on that BOSTON hit as well as most of BOSTON's songs, not the person holding a guitar in your promotion who identified himself as being "of BOSTON." Your claim that this was "the guy who originally did it" is a bit mystifying since he never played on that recording, nor has he been "of BOSTON" since he left my band over a quarter century ago, after performing with us for only three years.

BOSTON has never endorsed a political candidate, and with all due respect, would not start by endorsing a candidate who is the polar opposite of most everything BOSTON stands for. In fact, although I'm impressed you learned my bass guitar part on More Than a Feeling, I am an Obama supporter.

ey!  lighten up Boston!

[diesel_powered]

But Boston was about more than music! They were about social and political upheaval! They were about revolution!! 

[Andrew_TSKS]

honestly, i can understand completely why tom scholz would be bummed about that. if in 25 years i turn on the tv and see some objectivist ayn rand/ron paul fan taking the stage to tri state killing spree's "industry" i will not hesitate to sue.

[Ah_Pook]

im stealing this and reposting it here because its basically the funniest thing

[Antero]

Well... yeah, I can. Same way I could blame the Dean-iacs who threw up their hands and got all pouty after he lost the nomination. I don't see a whole lot of difference between the first and second statements in your post there.

You don't see the difference between a candidate losing a primary because of a simple numerical lack of support and a candidate losing a primary because of a handful of unaccountable officials deciding to overturn the popular vote?

If Obama takes the delegate count via popular vote and the superdelegates hand it to Clinton the party will collapse in on itself, because the party leadership will have made a declaration of absolute paternalistic disinterest in the democratic process.  Everyone should stay home if that's the case, because such a party does not deserve support no matter who their candidate might be.

[DCDave]

It pretty much goes against the fundamentals of a democratic republic.  But again, I doubt it will happen.

[slow west vultures]

or maybe we'll see student protest disruption a la chicago 1968.  where's the democratic convention being held this year? 

edited to add:  ah, denver.  never mind.  maybe the aspen crowd will drink a sympathy latte

[dieblucasdie]

It pretty much goes against the fundamentals of a democratic republic.  But again, I doubt it will happen.

QFT, witness John Lewis jumping ship for Obama.

Push to shove both Obama and Clinton are company men (heh); one or the other would cut a deal and bow out before letting it tear the Democratic party apart.

Also Dave notwithstanding, I think the vast majority of liberal Obama supporters would turn out for Clinton.  It's the moderate/crossover Republican votes that would be lost.

I'd be interested to see, if Clinton wins the nomination, if she chooses to have Obama campaign for her in places like GA, the pacific northwest, or the upper midwest.

[DCDave]

I hate to reiterate this, but the polls coming out were taken between Super Tuesday and last Monday.  Additionally, poll response rates PLUMMET during the weekend, and polls sample not such that they're spread out evenly over all nights, but you're looking for 1000 people to complete the survey (I used to be a pollster).  So none of them are accurate, right now - You really have to wait until next week.