Sad Thread again - fuck

[Ignatius]

I'm not the kinda guy who goes to the doctor to get himself something in particular prescribed (who goes to the doctor at all, really). But you make it sound so appealing.

[Greg Nog]

Eh, I wasn't super-impressed by it, actually.  I definitely prefer caffeine.

[donblood]

Eh, I wasn't super-impressed by it, actually.  I definitely prefer caffeine.

That's the thing - I love my for-real stimulants, but Provigil fulfills a different role entirely.  It's more clarity than fire.

[clare]

So do you get all the nausea/shaking/anxiety that can come with caffeine on this stuff too? Sounds like the go. I'm totally one to be peer pressured into drugs.

[RavingLunatic]

I'm not the kinda guy who goes to the doctor to get himself something in particular prescribed (who goes to the doctor at all, really). But you make it sound so appealing.

I'll rep for Donblood's claims here. I actually wrote a whole post on another forum about how much more I enjoy listening to music after I've taken half a tablet of Provigil. I can also read much more quickly and comprehend much more easily. While I've never done much creative work over the years, I do get the urge to go write music and feel like my ability to be creative undergoes a massive spike as well.

It's expensive stuff though. My insurance covers most of it, but it's still around $3 a pill. I just filled a prescription and the full cost was over $900. This is the only reason I haven't taken the stuff on most days for the last few months.

And I've never experienced any anxiety/shaking etc, though I suppose the energetic movements that I normally have when I sit down for long periods (raising my heel up and down when sitting, rotating wrist, etc.) become a bit exaggerated. That said, I'm not the kind of person to normally have anxiety, even during my bad periods. I pretty much go straight to the depression stage. Part of my laid-back personality I guess.

[jess]

You guys sound a lot like you're describing a mild to moderate hypomanic state when you talk about the effects of it. If it more or less induces that in people who don't normally experience it, I can certainly understand why you like it. Also why it would be really good at lifting people out of depression. It would also make me think anyone at all prone to that sort of tendency should probably stay far away from it.

[jebreject]

jess = yess

[jess]

jess = yess

This is totally my new motto.

[jebreject]

 

[RavingLunatic]

You guys sound a lot like you're describing a mild to moderate hypomanic state when you talk about the effects of it. If it more or less induces that in people who don't normally experience it, I can certainly understand why you like it. Also why it would be really good at lifting people out of depression. It would also make me think anyone at all prone to that sort of tendency should probably stay far away from it.

Because?

[jess]

You guys sound a lot like you're describing a mild to moderate hypomanic state when you talk about the effects of it. If it more or less induces that in people who don't normally experience it, I can certainly understand why you like it. Also why it would be really good at lifting people out of depression. It would also make me think anyone at all prone to that sort of tendency should probably stay far away from it.

Because?

Because if you have hypomanic tendencies, taking drugs that basically trigger those kinds of episodes could lead to getting unhinged. For people who are cyclothymic or bipolar (and RL, it doesn't sound like you're in that category at all--from the way you describe yourself, you seem pretty unipolar), once that mode starts up, it may not be easy to stop, even if you stop taking the med. What in other people can be a controlled amount of energy instead is all too likely to get out of control, especially if you invoke any sleep deprivation. It's why stimulants are generally a bad, bad scene for people with those issues. While hypomania lacks the destructiveness and danger of full out mania, and in fact, can be really productive and pleasurable, it involves running on energy you don't really have, and at some point, that can cause major problems and potentially depressive episodes.

Years ago, I used to take low doses of stimulants (and I believe I did try Provigil for one round, or one of those atypical stimulants anyway), too low even to get that much of a direct effect off of, and then I'd have weeks or months of being super functional, happy and barely sleeping before crashing hardcore and being a mess. It was only retrospect that I understood what was really going on there, and that's part of why I barely even drink caffeine now and can self-regulate much better.

I was mostly making the point because it makes me really wary to see people talking up stimulants and describing them as without side effects when that may not be the case for a number of the people reading this, as I know from previous discussions, a number of lptjers have talked about being bipolar II or some such.

[RavingLunatic]

Oh, see I thought you were saying anyone who has a tendency for depression. I can totally understand why someone has hypomanic tendencies would want to stay away. And yeah, it's good that you sounded a note of caution.

While I consider myself rather the opposite of having any kind of mania tendencies, I think when I first went to college and was on Effexor, I think I did have some hypomania tendencies. I mean, I did, there's not much doubt about it. I was a lot different than I was before then or have been afterwards. I think it was partly due to the situation and the point I was at in my life, but there's no question the Effexor is what really brought it on. I still have memories that cause me acute embarrassment from that period. Anyways, Effexor is a demon drug.

[jess]

Yeah, I realize my original post wasn't at all clear about which tendency I was referring to. Sorry!

And yes, Effexor really helps some people, but it can really fuck with you too. SSRIs can induce hypomania in not previously hypomanic people, but I think Effexor is even worse in that respect. Not to mention the withdrawal effects. Ugh. I don't seem to hear about it being prescribed as much these days though.

[RavingLunatic]

YES, the withdrawal effects were the worst thing about it. Took me many excruciating months getting off that stuff. The feeling of electric shocks coursing through your head at unpredictable moments is not fun.

[Greg Nog]

So do you get all the nausea/shaking/anxiety that can come with caffeine on this stuff too? Sounds like the go. I'm totally one to be peer pressured into drugs.

Speaking only for myself: I would say the difference between modafinil and caffeine is that while they're both stimulants, the former feels more like a giant wave pushing you forward, while the latter feels more like being caught in rapids that are moving you forward.  The latter is more exciting, and I think matches how my psyche works a little better; the former just feels boring and bullyish.  Modafinil doesn't really give me as much of a sense of clarity as it does a feeling of being caged in a fast-moving train.

[Lucy]

Oh man, Jess, honestly, should I be asking about modafinil for me? Cuz caffeine doesn't cut it, and I'd like to be a more functional human being. Oh gosh, a fountain of energy? I don't believe in magic potions or the magic bullet, but I'd sure like to.

[jess]

Yeah, for you, I could see that potentially being a good thing, certainly worth asking about. Those sorts of drugs (the atypical, non-habit-forming stimulants) were originally developed to treat narcolepsy, and so they seem like they'd be well suited for fatigue disorders.

[donblood]

Going back a bit...

So do you get all the nausea/shaking/anxiety that can come with caffeine on this stuff too? Sounds like the go. I'm totally one to be peer pressured into drugs.

No, you don't, and that's kind of the point - those side effects come with anything from caffeine to tobacco to Ritalin to dexedrine to coke to crystal meth, but not Provigil.

[Greg Nog]

IT MAKES YOUR FACE WARM, DON'T BE DRAWN IN

[Bernard]

Oh no, are we going to find out 15 years from now that it has no side effects -- except it makes aliens grow out of your nostrils?

[slow west vultures]

one of the people that's still missing from that boat that capsized off florida is the son of a local sportscaster.  i had no idea he had a son that played in the nfl.  the sportscaster is one of my favorites around here, so that's sad for him. 

[Bernard]

Being separated from dude A for most of March makes me very sad, and not even the prospect of getting to see dude B really cheers me.

[Andrew_TSKS]

one of the people that's still missing from that boat that capsized off florida is the son of a local sportscaster.  i had no idea he had a son that played in the nfl.  the sportscaster is one of my favorites around here, so that's sad for him. 

You mean the one with Corey Smith of the Lions? Heard about that. Shit is terrible. I sure hope the other three guys turn up OK, but the longer it goes on, the less hope I have.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Sad update: Search for Bleakley, Cooper, Smith called off

After three days of combing 24,000 miles of ocean, the Coast Guard on Tuesday stopped searching for two NFL players and a third man lost in rough, chilly Gulf of Mexico waters off the Florida coast.

Oakland Raiders linebacker Marquis Cooper, free-agent defensive lineman Corey Smith, who played with the Detroit Lions last season, and former South Florida player William Bleakley, had been missing since Saturday when their boat capsized during a fishing trip.

Bleakley’s father said he thought the Coast Guard did everything it could and that his expectations lowered after only one survivor was found Monday, nearly two days after the four friends were knocked out of their 21-foot boat.

“I think they were not to be found,” Robert Bleakley said.

Coast Guard Capt. Timothy Close said officials were sure that if there were any more survivors, they would have been found.

Major fucking bummer.

[Aglaya]

I just don't know what to do anymore.  About a year and a half ago, I decided that it was time for me stop being a leech and getting myself into all sorts of financial problems by being irresponsible and calling Daddy to bail me out.  I decided that if I didn't force myself to face the consequences of those actions, that I would probably spend the rest of my life being bailed out, and I don't want that.  I'm creeping up on 30, so it's long past time for me to be independent.  The getting evicted and having my car repossessed, dealing with these things was almost inevitable.  But since then, I had almost everything I owned stolen, I lost a job, went through the longest period of unemployment I ever have, found a job that I like but doesn't pay me enough to easily get back on my feet, nearly lost my home to a tornado, spent months without any hot water, live in a two-bedroom apartment with 3 other people, 6 cats, a horrible bug problem and squirrels in the walls, and I got in my first car accident.  I took the huge Christmas gift my dad gave me, spent some to buy new clothes which I desperately needed, and used most of it to open a savings account to save up for a new car (I've been driving the one I gave to my current room mate when I bought the other one because she doesn't have a license now).  As soon as I got a little money over the minimum balance built up, I had to spend $140 on the car to keep it drivable.  3 days later it got hit, but was still running. 3 days after that, it stopped running.  Every time I try to make a good choice, every time I try to do what I should be doing in my life right now, I get hit with something completely out of my control and I'm just losing it.  It's even harder to save now, because putting gas in your car is cheap.  Every time someone gives you a ride, they ask for $5-$10 for gas money, and I was spending $10-$15 before.  I can't take the bus because it doesn't go out near where I work, and I'm betting taking a taxi will be even more expensive.  The only people I have to rely on for rides to work are remarkably unreliable, and I cannot afford to lose this job because I can't get to work.  Maybe karma/nature/god/fate doesn't want me ok on my own.  Maybe I'm meant to be a worthless parasite for the rest of my life, because I have had more bad luck since I've tried to turn around than I had pretty much my whole life up until the past year and a half.  I just don't even know where to fucking start to figure out what to do.