Meditation, Depression, etc.

[RavingLunatic]

So tomorrow it'll be 4 weeks since I broke my ankle, and being unable to walk or get around is mentally killing me. I think the bone's pretty much healed, but the tendons and ligaments are damaged and my whole foot and ankle is still quite swollen.

First week I was generally OK and got a lot of reading done. The first couple weeks I was doing a lot of push-ups and pull-ups to make up for my inactivity. But then my shoulders, which I've had problems with for the last 8 years or so, got bad and I had to give up the lifting. Also the crutches (I've been hopping around on one foot). Now I'm pretty much unable to read or get anything productive whatsoever done during the day because I feel so miserable all the time.

I'd be OK if I could just go on walks and run and so forth, but I can't. It's just the kind of hopeless and desperate situation that I've been in before, and having devised and attempted to execute a million plans before, I know they're all pretty much doomed to failure.

I've read about respectable controlled studies showing that people who meditate or do some kind of relaxation or thought exercises are happier than a control group. I'm not interested in any kind of spiritual bullshit and I don't particularly want to study Buddhist philosophy or anything like that. I just feel like there's nothing much I can do right now to avoid being miserable, and I'm looking for something, anything, that might help. The longer I'm depressed, the bigger hole I dig and the harder it is to dig myself out again.

So does anybody here have any info or experience with this sort of thing? Any suggestions on reading material that could point me in the right direction?

[slow west vultures]

i came across this article while sitting in a waiting room.  i would recommend maybe some guided imagery techniques to start.  (man, got plenty of thoughts on this, but i just want you to get started in a comfortable direction) i'm basically in the same boat as you are, and i've tried a lot of different mindfulness, and meditation techniques, but i think you got to target towards something that's gonna make you feel a little bit better in the moment. 

i'm sorry to hear that ryan.  when do you expect to get back on your feet again?  i'd suggest listening to as relaxing music as possible.  when i get too worked up i turn on my 'relaxation room' mix.  maybe i'll try to post it in the mix thread.  i don't know, i got more thoughts but this might help

http://www.aarpmagazine.org/health/drug_free_remedies_chronic_pain.html

also,

I'd be OK if I could just go on walks and run and so forth, but I can't. It's just the kind of hopeless and desperate situation that I've been in before, and having devised and attempted to execute a million plans before, I know they're all pretty much doomed to failure.

i think you know this is just depression talking.  i wouldn't believe this 100%.  just focus on something you can do, and distract yourself.  do you have anybody to talk to or hang out with in the time being?  play solitaire or mah johngg on your computer if you can. i'll try to think of other stuff.

heh, or watch this simpsons episode and try to solve a local mystery
http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Bart_of_Darkness

just kidding, but i hope you can get your mind out of its current state.  your leg is going to heal. 

[jess]

This is the kind of psychology I specialize in, and there are a lot of people exploring, writing about and creating therapies based on secular forms of meditation. That sort of mindfulness practice has been incredibly helpful for me, and I can't recommend it enough (which is why I've chosen to research it). It was first used as a therapy (Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction) to treat pain in people with chronic disorders, and one of the other disorders mindfulness meditation (specifically MBCT, mindfulness-based cognitive therapy) has been most successful in treating is major depressive disorder with recurrent episodes, which seems to be what you struggle with. So it seems like it could be a good fit for you.

I in no way have the energy to write the big long post I want to about this right now, but I will later. In the meantime though, what sort of resources exactly are you looking for? Guides as to how to practice? Information about it and how it works (though much of that is either theoretical at this point or still being researched)? Does it need to be free or would you buy a book if recommended one?

Edit: Also, while what I said above is true, I do agree with SWV about thinking about things to make yourself feel better now, because mindfulness, while great, is about learning a tool, and it's a difficult and challenging process that isn't about immediate reward. I think it's a great thing to consider and to start at some point, but it's not necessarily going to make this situation better, and there are people for whom becoming more self-aware can be distressful at first.

[C of heartbreak]

Pranayama!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama

It sounds like you are looking to access a psychosomatic state--that is, a state where your thoughts are capable of affecting your fleshbody. Since I'm fairly certain you'll shun chemical means, I'd say pranayama is be best way to go about it.

Also I find it interesting that you're willing to embrace meditation but only if it's entirely divorced from the ideas that brought it into existence. There's a lot of "spiritual bullshit" that can help you without demanding that you go all Hare Krishna. Also, there are numerous schools of Hundu and Buddhist thought that are essentially athiestic--you might be interested in that.

But practically speaking, meditation is something that only works if you truly feel that it will work, so it's sort of an all or nothing proposition.

[clare]

My counsellor gave me a copy of a CD from John Kabat-Zinn, which I think might be one of the kinds of mindfulness meditiations Jess was talking about. I don't know how much it costs to buy though... From my non-US perspective his voice didn't annoy me, but results may vary.

[theartlessmonster]

(Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction) to treat pain in people with chronic disorders

i find this very helpful with my migraines and anxiety disorder or whatever my disorder du jour happens to be really and the more you practice it the more theraputic it becomes.  i also use my yoga practice in a similar way.

i highly rec it.

[jess]

My counsellor gave me a copy of a CD from John Kabat-Zinn, which I think might be one of the kinds of mindfulness meditiations Jess was talking about. I don't know how much it costs to buy though... From my non-US perspective his voice didn't annoy me, but results may vary.

Yep, Kabat-Zinn is the MBSR guy, the one who originally created the practice for chronic pain and such. I saw him speak at the APA conference last year, and he led us in a brief mindfulness exercise, which was great. I imagine his CDs and such would be very good.

[diesel_powered]

Edit: Also, while what I said above is true, I do agree with SWV about thinking about things to make yourself feel better now, because mindfulness, while great, is about learning a tool, and it's a difficult and challenging process that isn't about immediate reward. I think it's a great thing to consider and to start at some point, but it's not necessarily going to make this situation better, and there are people for whom becoming more self-aware can be distressful at first.

This is pretty much my issue with picking up this practice. I have the Kabat-Zinn CDs, it's just hard to learn a completely different way of looking at the world when you just want something to make the problem go away.

[clare]

I think also trying to learn from the CD might be difficult... I had my counsellor 'lead' the exercise while we also used the bio-feedback, which i found useful...

[theartlessmonster]

personally i found these two books helpful





Also, I love love love this alpha wave disc - i kind of picked it up randomly at scarlet sage when i was all whigged out and it really seems to work for me and it's nice if you don't think you really want to get into full on formal meditation you can just veg to this.



but i'll be totally honest and say sometimes when heavy anxiety kicks in i don't even have the presense of mind for any of it and i just take some benzos.  so i'd be a hypocrite if i said i deal with this stuff drug free. someday i'm hoping to get to that point with more practice.

also for meditation dvd style i like this one:



unfortunately in response to the "make the problem go away" none of it really does that on its own, including drugs.

[davy]

So, I think I'm going to take a stab at meditation.

I'm not particularly depressed or anything, but I am maybe a little too anxious/emotionally stiff these days. And I've got a nice porch, and lots of alone-time, and the weather is going to get cooler soon, and, well, meditation can't hurt.

[Ignatius]

I like to clench my butt or some other muscle in the middle of my body, look at something, and think about how I'm clenching a muscle. I do this for about ten minutes every day. It is the only way I can seem to sit and not think about anything.

[cold before sunrise]

RJ Stewart has some recordings of underworld visualizations that are a more interesting way of digging deeper than counting breaths 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-8-7...

[peacocks]

I was raised buddhist so I grew up meditating and chanting and it is really soothing to me and when I am chanting regularly I feel a difference in my mood (I'm happier, more energetic but not with nervous energy, calmer, more focused) but.  Man, lately because of circumstances I have been depressed and although it is weird for me to say, maybe I need an actual therapist?  Buddhist practice is supposed to allow you to handle the emotional rollercoasters of life but I feel like I'm on one every single day.     I'm not supposed to be this controlled by external circumstances and desires.  I sit down where I usually chant sometimes and just cry.  I can't even get myself to calm down enough to do it.  I'm not used to this. 

I've got a pretty large support system (spiritual community, family, friends) but since I was raised by these people I know the advice they are going to give and maybe other people out there might have some input?  I'm just sad a lot.  I don't even think I have clinical depression.  I went to a school therapist once in college for anxiety/stress and I felt like I was boring her to tears because I don't have real problems.  My mom had depression when I was little and she went to a therapist and took medication for a bit but stopped and said that meditating/chanting helped more than the medicine.  So... I don't know.

[clare]

I'd say, if money's not an issue, go and have a session with a counsellor. If you say at the outset that you're not interested in medication, they oughta respect that. Talking to someone outside your normal circle can be really useful, or they may have some therapy techniques that will work for you.

On the other hand, I'm not sure where Buddhism sits with the idea of emotional release, but the thing of crying during/instead of chanting sounds OK to me, though if it is getting in the way of relaxation, maybe not. (I had a thing going for a while that every time I tried to do relaxation yoga I would cry. I guess as a response to 'stopping'.)

It certainly sounds like you've been having a tough time of late from some of your other posts. Hang in there.

[peacocks]

Aw thanks. I'll give that a try. Emotional release is good of course but it can get in the way, like you said.

[RavingLunatic]

I can't believe I started this thread and then apparently didn't check back in. I'm in a similar situation right no, and am gonna to try to capitalize on some of the above advice. Over the last year or so, my gut pain has been really bad, and I've gone through frequent spells of acute misery, and the one thing that has kept it all in check is just going on long walks every single day. Now I've got plantar fasciitis, and I basically can't walk much at all. I can walk, but it's painful, and the more I walk, the more painful it gets, so I'm going to have to strap on my big broken-leg boot and avoid all walking as much as possible. This creates serious problems of two sorts: severe gut pain and depression.

I just about hit rock bottom a couple hours ago, and the only reason I'm well enough to even type this is that I took a Vicodin and in 15 minutes felt completely fine. Can't do this again though, obviously.

Anyways, tomorrow I have to go to class and will pick up a few meditation books at the library, probably a couple by that Kabat-Zinn guy, who seems pretty legit. In the meantime, I'm going to try to cut my food intake about in half and see if that can relieve my gut pain.

And a belated thanks for Jess, Clare, Mary, and C of H for caring enough to try to help me a couple years back.

[Maaik]

Wow man, take care.  Keep in mind that "Last Plane's got my back" is a pretty encouraging and soothing thing to repeat to yourself.

[clare]

Yeah, the plane's a pretty good place :-)

[peacocks]

Last night was really terrrrrrrrrible. It's like I enjoy opening emotional scabs and scars for fun or something. Anyway, I have an appointment with a therapist lady who does CBT on tuesday.

[Nick Ink]

Take care of yourself peacocks.

You too Ryan.

    

[RavingLunatic]

Thanks, Nick.

Sorry to hear about that, Peacocks. Here's to hoping that appointment works out. I've never had much success with any kind of therapist, but I know it helps most people quite a bit. 

They did not have a single Kabat-Zinn book at the college library, nor did they have anything resembling a meditation instruction book. I don't know if this is an unusual deficiency of theirs or if medium-size college libraries just generally don't carry those sort of things. I may have to resort to an inter-library loan request. So weird.

Anyways, the good news is that I've been a lot better the last couple days, even if not great. I'll take feeling mediocre at the moment for sure.

[milly balgeary]

i personally think therapy is (blank). i (blank) therapy. don't, like, more therapists kill themselves than their suicidal patients? i thought there was some statistic about that a while back. i'm gonna get myself in "internet trouble" if i share too much of my opinion on this matter though. one of my friends got real mad at me for this opinion. she and her boyfriend broke up.. a year later they got back together but one of the conditions was that they were seeing a therapist. i thought it kinda hilarious cause it was like two people who are dating... who are seeing a therapist? do you feel me on this? but i got in trouble with her for telling her that. . of course, i have since been forgiven. !

[milly balgeary]

RJ Stewart has some recordings of underworld visualizations that are a more interesting way of digging deeper than counting breaths 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-8-7...

I prefer Rod Stewart's work, esp his work on the kevin costner robin hood vehicle.

[peacocks]

Milly I see where you are coming from. I am not really looking to be cured or anything because I don't think I have an illness. It is more of a chance to talk to someone about things I can't talk to anyone else about without totally boring or stressing them out. If I bore a therapist, who cares? I hope this lady is cool.