Lady Gaga is fascinating.

[Andrew_TSKS]

OK, I've gotta start a thread about this:

Lady Gaga - Paparazzi (live at VMAs)

I have to hand it to Ms. Germanotta--she talked about this like it would be the coolest shit since Madonna had gay dudes crawling out from under her ballgown, and lo! It totally was! I was completely blown away by this performance (as those of you who follow me on tumblr are already aware) and I think it's the first really interesting pop-music-culture moment in a long time.

But like, there's more to it than that. I find Lady Gaga fascinating as a visual artist, someone who creates weird and awesome images with her clothing and her performances, both live and on video. I don't really care about her music that much--"Poker Face" actually kinda sucks, "Paparazzi" is decent at best, and I haven't heard anything else--but I feel like her creativity and originality as a visual artist means that it doesn't necessarily matter whether I like her music. Is that weird? Am I allowed to like an ostensible pop musician not because of but in spite of her pop music?

And what do you dudes think of all this?

[davy]

I found that performance to be very, very strange, and insofar as it was very, very strange, it was at least interesting...I mean, I'm all for shaking things up in the mainstream, I guess.

I wouldn't say I liked it.

[dieblucasdie]

To steal a line from Ah_Pook:

That's the gayest thing I've ever seen.  And I'm including hardcore gay porn.

[Greg Nog]

That was Pook?  I thought that was Slime, for some reason.

[diesel_powered]

Meh. Madonna did it first, Madonna did it better.

[Andrew_TSKS]

You guys suck.

[Greg Nog]

I like Lady Gaga all right, I just don't know that there's a lot to say about her at this stage of the game; she's still young and sexy, so she's making her name as the young-and-sexy-but-crazy-loopy-one, as opposed to the young-and-sexy-but-girl-next-door-one.  I think she's got a lot more potential to be increasingly interesting as she ages, but for right now, it's hard for me to read any of her imagery as anything other than schtick.

[elpollodiablo]

It's sort of unfathomable to me that there are so many people still watching MTV. I mean like, literate adults and shit. Wild.

[Greg Nog]

you're still mad about the girl in your office, aren't you

[Thermofusion]

I don't really know much about her, but I've read things on the interwebbe comparing her to Andy Warhol, which, let's be honest, is kind of a compliment and a put-down at the same time.

[YojimboMonkey]

just wanna quote like 2 pages of this thread at you right now

http://www.lastplanetojakarta.com/forums/index.php/topic,11727.375.html

Meh. Madonna did it first, Madonna did it better.

OK GRAMPA NOBODY'S DONE IT BETTER SINCE MATERIAL GIRL AND THE KIDS SHOULD STAY OFF YOUR LAWN

[diesel_powered]

Hey, I didn't say it was terrible, I just think this (yeah, I don't know what's up with the sound, it's annoying) and this are more satisfying. I think Madonna was a better singer and she exuded a completely different level of confidence that Lady Gaga lacks. It seems to me that Lady Gaga thinks her costumes (which are certainly interesting, but fairly derivative) and autotune get her further than they do.

OK GRAMPA NOBODY'S DONE IT BETTER SINCE MATERIAL GIRL AND THE KIDS SHOULD STAY OFF YOUR LAWN

*hurls whiskey bottle*

AND WHAT'S UP WITH THIS TWURTER THE KIDS ALL LOVE!? AND THE RAP MUSIC, TOO!

[elpollodiablo]

So this woman is another in a long line of people who got famous by dressing badly.

[elpollodiablo]

I mean maybe it's a little immature of me at this point, but I make an effort to avoid further propagating the fame of people whose success is a savvy marketing initiative driven by Viacom. But that's just me.

[Greg Nog]

Yeah, but the differences between Madonna's schticks (appropriate some imagery from a historical period, spend a lot of cash, rake in the profits) and Lady Gaga's anime-demon-cyborg-come-to-life schtick are so different as to make this a Muhammad-Ali-versus-antilock-brakes kind of comparison.  I think it would be more reasonable to compare her to Bjork, if anyone.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Yeah, but the differences between Madonna's schticks (appropriate some imagery from a historical period, spend a lot of cash, rake in the profits) and Lady Gaga's anime-demon-cyborg-come-to-life schtick are so different as to make this a Muhammad-Ali-versus-antilock-brakes kind of comparison.  I think it would be more reasonable to compare her to Bjork, if anyone.

That makes a lot of sense to me on some levels. I think maybe she's marrying Bjork's visual aesthetic to Madonna's unabashedly mainstream pop musical sensibility. But I guess for me Lady Gaga is more interesting because she seems to come from some kind of Ballardian future dystopia. Her imagery is pretty violent and repellent a lot of the time, and while I don't find it very disturbing, it's obvious that inhabitants of the cultural mainstream do (check out the look on Puffy's face when the MTV cameras cut to him around the 3 minute mark). That, to me, is awesome. I feel like Lady Gaga's work as a visual artist/stylist is probably breaking the brains of thousands of preteen girls out there (and maybe some boys too), and in the best possible way. Also, I sincerely find it interesting, even separate from its position as a cultural phenomenon. The "Paparazzi" video is pretty great too, and I really dug the visual references to it in the VMA performance (especially the bit with her staggering around on crutches).

So yeah, while I can see the Bjork comparison, I feel like Lady Gaga is a dark dystopian version of Bjork's weirdo-nature-hippie vibe.

[Andrew_TSKS]

P.S. I'll bet there are kids with strict parents who are getting in trouble for having Lady Gaga albums out there right now, which is awesome. Not because I support meddling parents micromanaging the lives of their offspring, but because they're fueling the next generation of rebellious, creative teenagers that way.

[elpollodiablo]

Except that the music is utter shit

[Andrew_TSKS]

I wouldn't go that far. It's not that great, but then again I don't really ever dig that type of pop music, so I don't know that I can be entirely trusted when it comes to grading one artist's output over another. And by that logic, you can't be trusted at all, because you hate it all equally. That is to say, one might refer to you as a "hater." If you will.

[Greg Nog]

I feel like Lady Gaga's work as a visual artist/stylist is probably breaking the brains of thousands of preteen girls out there (and maybe some boys too), and in the best possible way.

Yeah, as far as commercially-produced role models for little girls go, I definitely think Gaga is wayyyyyyy better than the Sexy Virgin Britney or the Bad Rebel P!nk; I like the idea that she fills the role of pop singer with manufactured weirdness, rather than a set of traits that match a standard character in the social landscape.  

My hope is that, as she ages, she builds up the layers of weird imagery in an increasingly dense and self-reflexive way, rather than moving on from one set of attributes to another in the way Madonna has.  Lady Gaga's not super-interesting to me just yet, but could definitely become so as a lifetime project.

[coldforge]

Madonna's contributions to international culture have been methinks somewhat exaggerated. By the same token, I think Lady Gaga can dress really bizarrely without immediately become a countercultural brainhacker.

[elpollodiablo]

I wouldn't go that far. It's not that great, but then again I don't really ever dig that type of pop music, so I don't know that I can be entirely trusted when it comes to grading one artist's output over another. And by that logic, you can't be trusted at all, because you hate it all equally. That is to say, one might refer to you as a "hater." If you will.

Except I really dig some modern pop music like that Beyonce song and the other thing by the guy but Lady Gaga's stuff is pretty much utter shit.

[elpollodiablo]

I feel like Lady Gaga's work as a visual artist/stylist is probably breaking the brains of thousands of preteen girls out there (and maybe some boys too), and in the best possible way.

Yeah, as far as commercially-produced role models for little girls go, I definitely think Gaga is wayyyyyyy better than the Sexy Virgin Britney or the Bad Rebel P!nk; I like the idea that she fills the role of pop singer with manufactured weirdness, rather than a set of traits that match a standard character in the social landscape.  

My hope is that, as she ages, she builds up the layers of weird imagery in an increasingly dense and self-reflexive way, rather than moving on from one set of attributes to another in the way Madonna has.  Lady Gaga's not super-interesting to me just yet, but could definitely become so as a lifetime project.

Your assumption that anyone will be talking about this woman in two years is pretty fuckin charitable, Nog.

[Andrew_TSKS]

The real definition of a hater, Miles, is someone who enjoys hating on things. You're enjoying the hell out of hating on Lady Gaga right now, so you fit the definition. Even if you do like a Beyonce song on occasion.

[Andrew_TSKS]

I feel like Lady Gaga's work as a visual artist/stylist is probably breaking the brains of thousands of preteen girls out there (and maybe some boys too), and in the best possible way.

Yeah, as far as commercially-produced role models for little girls go, I definitely think Gaga is wayyyyyyy better than the Sexy Virgin Britney or the Bad Rebel P!nk; I like the idea that she fills the role of pop singer with manufactured weirdness, rather than a set of traits that match a standard character in the social landscape.  

My hope is that, as she ages, she builds up the layers of weird imagery in an increasingly dense and self-reflexive way, rather than moving on from one set of attributes to another in the way Madonna has.  Lady Gaga's not super-interesting to me just yet, but could definitely become so as a lifetime project.

Seconding all of that.