a job ain't nothing but work

[alex]

I have not taught those kind of classes, but my general teaching experience is the first time you teach any new topic is terrible and embarrassing but you just get through it, and by the second time it's fine.

This just about summarises my experience, too.

[Good Intentions]

Wait, let me get this straight: in the US it's entirely usual for people who have just entered grad school to teach classes? Like, Miles is, from all accounts, a stellar achiever, but he's also someone who his school doesn't know from a bar of soap (except for what was included in his application), and he's now supposed to write a cirriculum and teach it to students? Without having senior faculty overseeing him?

Dear god, no wonder the American grad students I know (you guys included) complain about being exploited. It really, really sounds like you guys have been thrown into the lion's den, for extremely little reward. I've taught classes, but as a TA, where the students would get 2 hours a week from the PhD, and I'd give them an hour a week of tutorial where they're supposed to discuss that week's work (but in practice I'd give them an hour of follow-up, because none of them ever prepared any questions). I marked their assignments, but not their final exams, and I certainly had no input in the curriculum. And that is the level of teaching I'd expect up until the final stages of doing a PhD. At that stage me and my fellows would be in the situation you find yourself in, but with a PhD (most likely my PhD supervisor) being the 'course supervisor', who signs off on the curriculum, etc. This how it worked in New Zealand, how I know it works in South Africa and Australia, and very similar to how it goes in continental Europe. The slight disanalogy between PhD programmes in places where master degrees are always self-standing degrees, and places like the US, makes the comparison a little different. I know of people who started their PhD giving classes, but they've always done an M before that, and being a PhD student in those situations is mostly like being an ABD in the US system. But Miles and Hannah etc aren't ABDs (I'm leaving Mike out of this, what with his terminal degree MFA and all).

I loved being a TA, and would love to teach (despite how much I, like everybdy else, hate grading), but I don't expect to be entrusted with, you know, the education of the students for at least another year. For one thing, the students are already edgy enough about having someone without a PhD have as much input as the TAs do, and while they're wrong about my and my fellow honours/masters level students' qualification to be TAs, they'd have a point if I were to draw up a curriculum.

[DCDave]

It's common for grad students to T.A. in the social sciences and physical sciences.  I don't know the standard practice in the humanities.  I think in the humanities, phd students who have taken their comps can sometimes end up teaching summer courses on their dissertation topic?   

[Good Intentions]

But here's Miles, who's not even in a PhD programme never mind having sat his comps, giving a class on his own initiative. And, from where I'm sitting, it sounds like there's supposed to be nothing strange about this at all!

[hannah]

Yeah, I mean, I was in the exact same boat Miles will be in. I couldn't've gotten a job teaching composition at a community college (or, you know, a high school...) with just a BA, but somehow a top public university is willing to hand me over to their freshmen...

But it depends on the school. Public universities in particular depend on first- and second-year MA and PhD students alike to teach the required core classes -- so, for instance, freshmen composition/rhetoric, but also literature courses, etc. There's always some level of faculty supervision, but given that that faculty member is often an adjunct or a lecturer him/herself, well...

If I were to finish my PhD at this program, rather than moving elsewhere, I would probably be expected to teach a couple sections of an introductory film course, which would have a faculty member giving a lecture -- my responsibilities then would be to lead one hour of discussion each week and grade papers. I might also be expected to lead a seminar on one of my specialties -- a friend of mine, who also taught freshmen rhetoric for her first two years here and is continuing her PhD in my program, will be teaching a course on horror in the fall.  In her case, the faculty knows her, knows she has two years of teaching under her belt, has approved of her syllabus... but, even so, she is responsible for 25 students, not to mention her own course load, etc.

At private universities, funding packages are usually different. MA programs are almost always unfunded (with some scholarships, etc.). PhD programs will have two years of fellowship; once a student's coursework is completed, s/he will lead a section or two of a larger lecture course, and then maybe be expected to design and teach a course of his/her making. It's far from ideal. Anyhow, this will be my deal starting in the fall.

tl/dr... yes,

no wonder the American grad students I know (you guys included) complain about being exploited. It really, really sounds like you guys have been thrown into the lion's den, for extremely little reward.

[ellaguru]

Up here in Canada, graduate students generally don't teach their own courses, except in special cases (which aren't super rare, but you have to work to get them, I think. My mover and shaker friend Michelle ended up trucking out to Calgary the last few summers of her PhD to teach a couple courses). In my five years in real grad school, four of them as a PhD student (and one of the promising types whose resumes my department would presumably want to help with), I was never offered my own course. Just tutorial sections of other people's courses.

[elpollodiablo]

Meh. Exploitation = having to work while studying? Status motherfucking quo!

I'm excited at the prospect of getting some teaching experience, and the time spent getting my MA is going to considerably and qualitatively add to my resume. While it's true that many public universities rely on cheap grad labor to keep their programs going, I think that system is preferable to the high-walled assholery of elite private universities who are content to shake down their master's students for a year, letting the poor bastards pay through the nose with nothing to sustain them beyond the vague hope of getting a funded PhD spot. I'm really grateful for the opportunity I'm getting--I could do this without going one red cent further into debt, if I lived like an ascetic. Unfortunately, I acquired a taste for high livin' while in godless Yankeeland.

And anyway, we're talking about freshman comp here. If you ain't have what it takes to teach a section of that, you probably shouldn't be pursuing an academic career.

[Good Intentions]

to ellaguru: Yeah, that sounds like what I'm used to. It sounds like in the US in the humanities they're farming out teaching to people outside of established faculty in a degree not seen elsewhere, and which causes quite a bit of resentment.

to pollo: I have no experience of comp classes, so I wouldn't know. I do know that intro-level courses everywhere I've been is damn-near kindergarten compared to the shit people do even at the upper levels of undergraduate work. But where I've studied, grad students (from honours level onwards: in the southern hemisphere anglophone countries, the 4th year of studies is postgraduate) are supported by doing TA work, and that work is enough to keep you in house and home. Hardly the high life, but there is scope to earn more. The point is that you could support yourself by TAing, without, you know, being thrown to the wolves. The rate of hourly compensation that my US fellows get for teaching, well, it's harrowing how little it is. At least, that's how it seems from where I'm sitting.

[DCDave]

But here's Miles, who's not even in a PhD programme never mind having sat his comps, giving a class on his own initiative. And, from where I'm sitting, it sounds like there's supposed to be nothing strange about this at all!

As I mentioned earlier, I think this is more of an artifact of English departments in American universities than American universities.  As hannah mentioned, the classes that mssr. devilchicken would teach would more likely be things like composition, (i.e., how to write an essay) than not.  Regarding her assertion that this is common for public universities vis a vis private ones, I can't say that I had a single grad student led class in my experience at a public university.

[DCDave]

Yeah, that sounds like what I'm used to. It sounds like in the US in the humanities they're farming out teaching to people outside of established faculty in a degree not seen elsewhere, and which causes quite a bit of resentment.

The move towards teaching by non-tenure track positions in very, very high across fields in the US.  This is because tenure-track faculty are generally required to bring in money to the University/pay their salaries in many cases via research grants, and teaching is a luxury for them. 

[elpollodiablo]

Really? I had a fucking shit load of them.

xpost to Dave

[hannah]

Meh. Exploitation = having to work while studying? Status motherfucking quo!

Oh, please. Because studying somehow =/= work?

[Good Intentions]

I had two classes that were tought by a graduate student, and one was so far along that he was awarded his PhD by the time the semester finished. I had two classes TA'd by PhD students -- that is far and away the more common course of action (one of them gave her own class after 2 years of TAing other people's, and probably some more TA experience at the place she did her masters).

[Good Intentions]

I'd like to hear from alex on this count: I've now studied in the Netherlands, but she has much more experience on how things run in continental Europe. I'm also a bit ignorant of the state of affairs in Britain, though I gather that there's a world of difference between the 'old' universities and the newer ones.

[DCDave]

Meh. Exploitation = having to work while studying? Status motherfucking quo!

Oh, please. Because studying somehow =/= work?

No. Studying is not work.

[elpollodiablo]

Nope!

[ellaguru]

We are doing the increased number of sessional instructors thing as well - and I think they get, like, $1000 more per course per term than the graduate students who assist them, so it's not like that's all rosy - but not the graduate student teachers thing.

[hannah]

And anyway, we're talking about freshman comp here. If you ain't have what it takes to teach a section of that, you probably shouldn't be pursuing an academic career.

Dude, pollo, I don't mean to be picking on you, but, Christ, man. This really, really makes me angry.

[elpollodiablo]

to ellaguru: Yeah, that sounds like what I'm used to. It sounds like in the US in the humanities they're farming out teaching to people outside of established faculty in a degree not seen elsewhere, and which causes quite a bit of resentment.

to pollo: I have no experience of comp classes, so I wouldn't know. I do know that intro-level courses everywhere I've been is damn-near kindergarten compared to the shit people do even at the upper levels of undergraduate work. But where I've studied, grad students (from honours level onwards: in the southern hemisphere anglophone countries, the 4th year of studies is postgraduate) are supported by doing TA work, and that work is enough to keep you in house and home. Hardly the high life, but there is scope to earn more. The point is that you could support yourself by TAing, without, you know, being thrown to the wolves. The rate of hourly compensation that my US fellows get for teaching, well, it's harrowing how little it is. At least, that's how it seems from where I'm sitting.

Thrown to the wolves = teaching some 18 years olds how to write a damn essay? I guess I'm not seeing the huge injustice here. I had to work 40 hellish hours a week for the first three years of my undergraduate studies. A chance to jump in and learn a little something about pedagogy on a part time basis seems like fucking bliss by comparison.

[elpollodiablo]

And anyway, we're talking about freshman comp here. If you ain't have what it takes to teach a section of that, you probably shouldn't be pursuing an academic career.

Dude, pollo, I don't mean to be picking on you, but, Christ, man. This really, really makes me angry.

Why?

[Good Intentions]

I have no idea how you managed 40 hrs of work and full-time study, and you have a great deal of respect from me on that count. I did 20 hrs for much of mine, and it was hard enough.

Whether studying is work or not is largely a moot point, because it is time-consuming, and while you're hitting the books you still need to pay rent and buy the groceries, so students need support.

I think Hannah's commenting on the fact that you're perhaps underestimating how demanding teaching is. I think she's right -- it's not always intellectually demanding (though it gets that way very quickly when you're trying to match your understanding of a subject with that of people who haven't read what you've had or even struggled with the same questions) but it can be goddamn exhausting.

[hannah]

Because it is REALLY FUCKING HARD to teach freshmen comp

xpost

[hannah]

I think I'm having a mini-meltdown. This is probably the wrong thread. I skipped two of my classes today. I am so, so exhausted but I sleep like crap half the week — the nights when Jacob isn't here. I am sick of teaching, of the students who don't hand in papers and the students who don't bring assigned readings to class. I am ready for the semester to be over, but once the semester is over I need to find a summer job, and I don't know what job to find. It's been gorgeous outside the past few days but I have conjunctivitis and a sinus infection. I can't keep up with Russian. Three more weeks. Just three more weeks. Two research papers to write, three presentations to give (including one in Russian), 42 papers to grade, 21 speeches to grade...

oh well guess I don't have what it takes

[ellaguru]

(Hannah, remember that he hasn't actually done it yet.)

[elpollodiablo]

Right... but you did have what it takes, obviously! I mean, sorry for being glib (you know how I do), but I still think that's an essentially accurate statement. Hard though it may be, if you can't do it, you should maybe reevaluate your career path.