Star Wars

[Babar]

Let's just have whole thread for this because discussions about Star Wars can go on forever.

The key to the closet of delights that's Star Wars, is realizing that George Lucas is not a brilliant guy at all. In fact, he's kind of a doofus. BUT he created this crazy space opera that could've only been written in modern history and since we're part of that particular era in time we. It's our Figaro, and while Mozart was a genius, Lucas is not. Thus we gotta work with what we got. And what do we got? One way to look at it is to see it as a boring over-hyped film with bad acting and a generic story line. The other, far more fun way, is to see it as a epic, wildly popular masterpiece with stable characters and a classic story between good and evil. To me, both ways are sort of true. But as a humble citizen of our mankind I watch it regularly, of course.  Not liking Star Wars is kinda like living in the 8th century B.C. and being like "Iliad's so dull, man. An ankle sore?! Talk about willing suspension of disbelief, huh Ctelius?". Plus, it all happens in SPACE which makes it 100x more fun.

Up until I watched them pretty recently, Return of the Jedi was my favorite star wars flick. Now I think I like Empire the most. I always watch them back to back to back though, so they all kinda melt together.

[diesel_powered]

Babar! I missed you, dude!

I tend to lean towards the "Iliad's so dull, man. An ankle sore?! Talk about willing suspension of disbelief, huh Ctelius?" side, but I can't hate on the other side of that equation. I totally agree with your assessment of Lucas as executing an epic story in a totally awkward manner. Have you read any Joseph Campbell?

The only thing I can add (tangentially) is that Mozart was probably less of a genius than we think. Years of critical adoration can do that to a person. If anything, I'd probably say Mozart was the Justin Timberlake of his time in the sense that he put a pretty large amount of work and talent into writing precisely executed and wildly popular pop music of his time, to the adoration of his fans. It's just that at the time, the pop music was much more exclusive in its distribution and those who were able to access it were assigned more critical authority strictly because they were competing with the uneducated hoi polloi. But I could totally be pulling that out of my ass as I'm not a classical music historian.

[Anne the Man]

I have nothing to say about Star Wars, as I have seen only a tiny bit and it looks shit, I just came to say hi Babar! Where you been?

[clare]

Yay Babar. I think the entire first Star Wars trilogy was on TV last night. All I know is I came out from putting E to bed and Return of the Jedi was just starting. We got bored when the Ewoks come out though...so yes, Empire Strikes Back, then A New Hope and then Return. Don't get me started on the second trilogy. I'd like to see that edit that was floating around for a while. Teh one without Jar-jar Binks.

[diesel_powered]

At some point, we should probably talk about Empire and how awesome it would have been with David Lynch directing.

[elpollodiablo]

It's still mindblowing to me, 10+ year later, how completely awful and borderline unwatchable his prequel trilogy was. I don't think I'll ever watch eps.I-III ever again. Saw each in the theater once, and that was quite enough.

[distance]

It's still mindblowing to me, 10+ year later, how completely awful and borderline unwatchable his prequel trilogy was. I don't think I'll ever watch eps.I-III ever again. Saw each in the theater once, and that was quite enough.

the first one is definitely unwatchable.  there are a few redeeming things that make the second and third mildly watchable.  i saw episode one twice on opening day (once at midnight and then once in the evening).  after that, it was about 8-9 years before i actually even saw part of it again.  at the time it was a huge disappointment.  i mean i saw some cool things about it, but from jarjar to the midichlorians to the over-done CG.. it did turn out to be disappointing.  when i caught it on television around 2007-08 (i'm not exactly sure when), i tried to watch a few minutes of it.  tried.  it's unwatchable.  i don't think there is ANYTHING good about that movie.  i had to change the channel within 5 minutes.  it just made me cringe.
seeing episode 1 in the theater left me with some hope.  we then knew the start of the story.   we knew how the story finished.  there was so much potential in what could be done with getting from point A to point B.  episode 3, especially, could have been amazing.  it could have been the empire of the prequel trilogy and completely justified the other two.  george lucas failed us.

[davy]

I don't think the acting is bad! In general!

[davy]

It's still mindblowing to me, 10+ year later, how completely awful and borderline unwatchable his prequel trilogy was. I don't think I'll ever watch eps.I-III ever again. Saw each in the theater once, and that was quite enough.

I think we can all agree on this.

But jesus fuck, you people, if Tisskiss can flounce over a Lady Gaga quote, maybe I should die on the cross for motherfucking STAR WARS.

[elpollodiablo]

Strike me down with all of your hatred

[ellaguru]

Episode 1 was bad enough that I've never seen episodes 2 or 3.

[elpollodiablo]

As I remember them, the last 15 min or so of III are pretty good, Manikin notwithstanding.

[Greg Nog]

Yeah, I was surprised by how palatable the third one was, but I think I'd lowered my expectations kind of a lot after Episodes I and II.

[Thermofusion]

But I could totally be pulling that out of my ass as I'm not a classical music historian.

Mozart was more the rare innovator who happened to enjoy popularity while he was still alive—though, in traditional composer fashion, he got a lot more popular after he died. His upgrading and solidifying of basic musical forms (the symphony, the opera, the concerto) pretty much set the stage for the next 75 years of classical music.

A better example would be someone like Lully, who popular in critical circles at the time, enjoyed wild success in his day, but pretty much composed the 17th century version of the most banal, boring pop music you can imagine. It's godawful, and that's why he's mostly remembered today not for his music but for the hilarious way in which he died.

STAR WARS:

I like the original trilogy! Of the new ones, I've only seen Attack of the Clones start-to-finish. I sorta liked it, but man is it kinda bad. I don't know how much blame you can levy on the actors when the dialogue is so bad, but both are bad.

I guess I agree with everyone else that Empire is the best one.

I liked those X-Wing and Tie Fighter computer games

Um, Star Wars: Epic Duels was a fun fucking board game.

I don't have anything else to say on the subject, except I'm glad you're BACK, BABAR

[coldforge]

Lully didn't die hilariously. He died grossly. But it gives you some ideas for those historically-accurate-practice ensembles—not that they should die of gangrene, but that they should get their original vintage violons and catgut strings and all that, and then I should come on and thump a giant stick on the floor FOR THE WHOLE PERFORMANCE.

[elpollodiablo]

Yeah Babs I meant to say hidey-ho earlier, but welcome back

Star Wars has indeed spun off some amazing vidja games, though, KOTOR and Jedi Knight being my favorites.

[Nick Ink]

My daughter loves the proper 3 films - I keep telling her to ignore all this stuff about Phantom whatnots and Clone Wars thingamijigs, cos it aint real Star Wars.

[davy]

Jedi Outcast was one of the PC games that got me back into the gaming frame of mind. After that was when I hit up BioShock. I guess it's a lesser Star Wars game in the general scheme of things, but I had a good time with it.

I found that the Lego Star Wars novelty wore off somewhere in the middle of Empire. Looking forward to checking out KOTOR and Unleashed.

[Thermofusion]

Lully didn't die hilariously. He died grossly. But it gives you some ideas for those historically-accurate-practice ensembles—not that they should die of gangrene, but that they should get their original vintage violons and catgut strings and all that, and then I should come on and thump a giant stick on the floor FOR THE WHOLE PERFORMANCE.

I don't know of any early music ensembles who do this, either. I'd of course pay to watch it.

[elpollodiablo]

Jedi Outcast was one of the PC games that got me back into the gaming frame of mind. After that was when I hit up BioShock. I guess it's a lesser Star Wars game in the general scheme of things, but I had a good time with it.

I found that the Lego Star Wars novelty wore off somewhere in the middle of Empire. Looking forward to checking out KOTOR and Unleashed.

You should definitely check out both KOTOR games, davy, since you can probably get em both for less than $10 and play them on your 360.

[milesofsparks]

Babar!  hello! 

I love the first three Star Warses as I saw them when they came out at a pretty young, impressionable age.  The last three were just movies--somewhat entertaining, but didn't make a huge impression on me.

[Good Intentions]

There was a summer, after my 12th birthday, where my  brother and I would watch at least one of the original trilogy movies basically every day. It's one cultural touchstone I've got covered, and covered in spades. In high school I even bought a bunch of the spin-off books.

Star Wars is one of those things, I think, that the closer you look at it the more glaring problems there are. The prequels, I think, are mostly guilty of buying their own hype, whereas Star Wars always was about spectacle and overwhelming first impressions. I don't want to know the microbiology of the Force, I want Yoda to beat Luke over the stick for being a dumbass. I don't want  interstellar senate C-SPAN, I want Vader force-choking people saying: 'I find your lack of faith disturbing'. I frequently get the impression that Lucas has a very shaky grasp on what was good about Star Wars.

[Babar]

Lucas' and Mozart's genius (or lack thereof) is crystallized in the fact that when Mozart wrote something it was perfect to him before his quill even touched the scroll while Lucas went back and changed his original creation (repeatedly).

[davy]

I frequently get the impression that Lucas has a very shaky grasp on what was good about Star Wars.

This is exactly it, I think.

While we're on the subject, I've got a friend who says he has the original trilogy on DVD--and they aren't special edition. I was under the impression that all original Star Wars DVDs were special edition. I kind of don't believe him. Does anyone know different?

[lastclearchance]

While we're on the subject, I've got a friend who says he has the original trilogy on DVD--and they aren't special edition. I was under the impression that all original Star Wars DVDs were special edition. I kind of don't believe him. Does anyone know different?

The 2-Disc versions of the original trilogy have the theatrical releases on Disc 2, unrestored and non-anamorphic.