Comics

[jordanmichael]

fixed the link to the script

[FreddyKnuckles]

You know what, I actually dug Mill. I didn't 'dig' him like I dig Charlie Parker, mind you... but for being British, the dude was tight. I like the idea of 'happiness for the greatest amount of people'... I think it's bullshit... but I like it.

yeah, but to me, utilitarianism is flawed in that very aspect, because its basically saying money=happiness.  And what of the evil billionaire.  He created tons of jobs and provided the most "happiness", while never donating a dime.  Compare him to the nurse or fireman or cop, who get payed shit.  is the evil billionaire a better person?  has he done more good?  I don't effin buy it.

Utilitarianism would be great if it actually meant distributing happiness (money) equally.  But basically what Mill is saying isn't 'happiness for the greatest amount of people', he's saying 'greatest total happiness for the world population' but it doesn't say anything about distribution.  Mill basically wants you to do things very selfishly and if everyone acts for himself, the total happiness goes up.  I don't really know how to explain what I'm getting at, but to me, utilitariansim is just a way to justify corporate greed.

wow.. haha, this is the best topic change in a thread ever!  sorry jordan, haha.

[cold before sunrise]

i'm particularly fond of 'campfire stories.' j. ro mailed me stickers and a personal note but we lost touch a couple years ago. too bad, for serious... he seemed lonely and i'm the kind of girl who likes to make boys happy.

he used to have a website called donkeytv.com but i don't know what happened.

[jordanmichael]

You know what, I actually dug Mill. I didn't 'dig' him like I dig Charlie Parker, mind you... but for being British, the dude was tight. I like the idea of 'happiness for the greatest amount of people'... I think it's bullshit... but I like it.

yeah, but to me, utilitarianism is flawed in that very aspect, because its basically saying money=happiness.  And what of the evil billionaire.  He created tons of jobs and provided the most "happiness", while never donating a dime.  Compare him to the nurse or fireman or cop, who get payed shit.  is the evil billionaire a better person?  has he done more good?  I don't effin buy it.

Utilitarianism would be great if it actually meant distributing happiness (money) equally.  But basically what Mill is saying isn't 'happiness for the greatest amount of people', he's saying 'greatest total happiness for the world population' but it doesn't say anything about distribution.  Mill basically wants you to do things very selfishly and if everyone acts for himself, the total happiness goes up.  I don't really know how to explain what I'm getting at, but to me, utilitariansim is just a way to justify corporate greed.

wow.. haha, this is the best topic change in a thread ever!  sorry jordan, haha.

it's okay. i guess it is just karma coming back to get me for the dozens of threads i derailed.

[cold before sunrise]

haha... karma is a sack of shit and you don't exist.

[jordanmichael]

haha... karma is a sack of shit and you don't exist.

oh man... that blows.

[cold before sunrise]

<sniff>

[Greg Nog]

I thank you for your mad props, jordan and  Andrew.  And if I might add:  Pirate versus Viking is awesome.

I go back and forth on Grant Morrison.  Volume 1 of the Invisibles is still fantastic (particularly the three stand-alone issues, midway through the series), but the longer Grant Morrison writes, the more I feel like his scripts can be boiled down to:

(promising, atmospheric beginning)
Cool White Guy:  Boy, I wish people would stop being cruel to animals!
Hot Ethnic Girl:  Hi!  I'm mysterious and sexy and let's take some hallucinogens!
CWG:  Awesome!  Hey, aren't you my sister?
HEG:  Maybe!  Let's have sex!
CWG:  Yes, lets!  Uh-oh!  Here comes some liquid silvery stuff!
(disappointing ending that makes no sense)

Amadeus, your geek points have been noted.  You will now get a +2 roll for awesomeness on your next turn.

[Zeuglodon]

Yes, Greg Nog, your comics indeed rule ever-so-hard. I highly recommend your site to anyone who likes comics which are funny and well-executed.

If, however, your tastes tend towards the tragically unfunny and poorly drawn, I suggest this latest endeavor from the deservedly maligned Rob Liefeld:  http://robliefeld.net/shrink.htm

[jordanmichael]

I thank you for your mad props, jordan and  Andrew.  And if I might add:  Pirate versus Viking is awesome.

I go back and forth on Grant Morrison.  Volume 1 of the Invisibles is still fantastic (particularly the three stand-alone issues, midway through the series), but the longer Grant Morrison writes, the more I feel like his scripts can be boiled down to:

(promising, atmospheric beginning)
Cool White Guy:  Boy, I wish people would stop being cruel to animals!
Hot Ethnic Girl:  Hi!  I'm mysterious and sexy and let's take some hallucinogens!
CWG:  Awesome!  Hey, aren't you my sister?
HEG:  Maybe!  Let's have sex!
CWG:  Yes, lets!  Uh-oh!  Here comes some liquid silvery stuff!
(disappointing ending that makes no sense)

Amadeus, your geek points have been noted.  You will now get a +2 roll for awesomeness on your next turn.

+2CHA

[Michael]

Mill basically wants you to do things very selfishly and if everyone acts for himself, the total happiness goes up.  I don't really know how to explain what I'm getting at, but to me, utilitariansim is just a way to justify corporate greed.

Did Mill come before or after Adam Smith?  Smith said essentially the same thing, that if every one in society behaved in a way that was in their own best interest, society as a whole would be a better place.  But the important part is that Smith did not consider fucking people over to be in an individual's best interest.

Adam Smith also made very nice mini-comics.

[Michael]

clowes is coming out with a new graphic novel this june.

It's actually just a retooling of the Ice Haven story from Eightball a couple of issues back.  Looks like they cut the pages in half (as in, turned each page into two pages) to make it a feasible book length.  I am really happy Pantheon is publishing another book by Clowes, becuase David Boring was such a bizarre and difficult book that I was sure nobody that wasn't already a comics nerd was going to buy it. Guess they did.

I've been so busy with school reading my comics reading has dropped lately, but I did recently read through Tezuka's Buddha books. Totally fantastic.  I'm not usually an manga reader, but I loved this.

If you have an interest in newspaper comics, make sure to check out the Peanuts and Krazy Kat collections that are being published. I agree Boondocks sucks now.  It used to be pretty funny (always had terrible art, though), but the success went to Magruder's head, it seems.  I personally think Get Fuzzy and Big Top are pretty funny.

Webcomics: Achewood!

[Nicholson]

Yeah, I knew the deal about Ice Haven too. I'm torn about the new book- my copy of Eightball 22 got water-damaged, and should be replaced. If this book ends up better (maybe there'll be new stuff, although that seems unlikely) I'll pick that up, but maybe I should just buy it again, as that old edition is still cheap, and when Pantheon puts it out in hardcover it'll be like nineteen bucks. Also the reprint probably won't include the Harry Nabors explains it all thing, as it's kind of just an ad for other Clowes product, but I thought it added something to the book as a whole.

Clowes is weird to me in that he's so all over the place. I like it- There's a lot of stuff that I feel like I'm missing, especially with all these people calling David Boring a masterpiece. I thought Ghost World sucked as a comic, despite enjoying the movie quite a bit, as well as some of his comparable comics from the same time, like the stuff in the Caricature collection.

I really need to get into Tezuka, as well- Buddha's going to start coming out in paperbacks for eight bucks- they'll be restructured so there's more of them, but still a good pagecount. I've also heard great things about Phoenix. I'm not really on the manga tip, as a lot of the stuff I've heard is good (like Junji Ito) is either not at the awesomely cheap ten dollar price point or isn't printed left-to-right.

The newspaper comic reprints are both awesome and expensive- the Complete Peanuts especially, but if I were to pursue the Krazy Kat library, I'd end up spending a lot of money. I should probably nonetheless have one or two of each around my house.

[Michael]

A friend of mine who was sent a weird color photocopy reveiw copy of Ice Haven said there is new stuff in it, but he wasn't sure how much.

I liked Ghost World a lot better when it was just a collection of episodes that subtly developed the story of the deteriorating friendship. When the ending brought it to the forefront, it ended up feeling tacked on and forced.

[jordanmichael]

Yeah, I knew the deal about Ice Haven too. I'm torn about the new book- my copy of Eightball 22 got water-damaged, and should be replaced. If this book ends up better (maybe there'll be new stuff, although that seems unlikely) I'll pick that up, but maybe I should just buy it again, as that old edition is still cheap, and when Pantheon puts it out in hardcover it'll be like nineteen bucks. Also the reprint probably won't include the Harry Nabors explains it all thing, as it's kind of just an ad for other Clowes product, but I thought it added something to the book as a whole.

Clowes is weird to me in that he's so all over the place. I like it- There's a lot of stuff that I feel like I'm missing, especially with all these people calling David Boring a masterpiece. I thought Ghost World sucked as a comic, despite enjoying the movie quite a bit, as well as some of his comparable comics from the same time, like the stuff in the Caricature collection.

I really need to get into Tezuka, as well- Buddha's going to start coming out in paperbacks for eight bucks- they'll be restructured so there's more of them, but still a good pagecount. I've also heard great things about Phoenix. I'm not really on the manga tip, as a lot of the stuff I've heard is good (like Junji Ito) is either not at the awesomely cheap ten dollar price point or isn't printed left-to-right.

The newspaper comic reprints are both awesome and expensive- the Complete Peanuts especially, but if I were to pursue the Krazy Kat library, I'd end up spending a lot of money. I should probably nonetheless have one or two of each around my house.

i want to get the complete peanuts, and ghost world was amazing.

fantagraphics is good, but top shelf is better.

[Michael]

fantagraphics is good, but top shelf is better.

You're crazy. But Highwater was the best of all.

[Ah_Pook]

fantgraphics gets my eternal repsect for reprinting the complete pogo, and my eternal hate for letting them all go out of print so fast so now i have to get them through ebay or something

[jordanmichael]

fantagraphics is good, but top shelf is better.

You're crazy. But Highwater was the best of all.

fantagraphics DOESN'T have craig thompson.

winner: top shelf

oh wait, alan moore did choose fantagraphics to publish some of his work. no, it was top shelf.

winner: top shelf

[Andrew_TSKS]

those peanuts books are gonna get hella expensive after a while. they're only doing 2 years per book. there are at least 35 good years of peanuts out there.

[jordanmichael]

those peanuts books are gonna get hella expensive after a while. they're only doing 2 years per book. there are at least 35 good years of peanuts out there.

we have the first collection in my high school library. my high school has a decent graphic novel section.

[Andrew_TSKS]

damn, times have changed since i was in high school.

[jordanmichael]

damn, times have changed since i was in high school.

when'd you graduate?

[Nicholson]

God fucking damn, I wrote a long post, then internet died and it went unread. But basically: Dude, Jordan, you haven't read Jimmy Corrigan. Which means you probably haven't read any Chris Ware. Have you read anything by Los Bros Hernandez? Have you read Charles Burns' Black Hole? Daniel Clowes has a ton of books out. I don't even like R. Crumb's comics, but I like his drawings, and all the work that dude's ever done is kept in print by Fantagraphics. Who, it should be noted, are also going to start reprinting the complete Pogo, to go along with the ongoing Peanuts and Krazy Kat reprints.

Craig Thompson's output on Top Shelf is limited to two graphic novels, one diary/sketchbook/travelogue thing, and two minicomics. Alan Moore's output, currently, is one short story in a twenty-five dollar anthology that DC was too scared to run- All the other stuff you're probably thinking of, like From Hell, was printed by Eddie Campbell Comics. This isn't to say Top Shelf doesn't put out other good stuff you neglected to mention.

This isn't even me going "yay Fantagraphics!" It's me saying that any statement as to a best publisher, or even the idea of a favorite publisher, is kind of retarded. (This would also apply to things like record labels, btw.)

And in the post I wrote, I also mentioned David Lapham's Stray Bullets and Paul Pope's 100% as being amazing, and recommended them to all.

[jordanmichael]

God fucking damn, I wrote a long post, then internet died and it went unread. But basically: Dude, Jordan, you haven't read Jimmy Corrigan. Which means you probably haven't read any Chris Ware. Have you read anything by Los Bros Hernandez? Have you read Charles Burns' Black Hole? Daniel Clowes has a ton of books out. I don't even like R. Crumb's comics, but I like his drawings, and all the work that dude's ever done is kept in print by Fantagraphics. Who, it should be noted, are also going to start reprinting the complete Pogo, to go along with the ongoing Peanuts and Krazy Kat reprints.

Craig Thompson's output on Top Shelf is limited to two graphic novels, one diary/sketchbook/travelogue thing, and two minicomics. Alan Moore's output, currently, is one short story in a twenty-five dollar anthology that DC was too scared to run- All the other stuff you're probably thinking of, like From Hell, was printed by Eddie Campbell Comics. This isn't to say Top Shelf doesn't put out other good stuff you neglected to mention.

This isn't even me going "yay Fantagraphics!" It's me saying that any statement as to a best publisher, or even the idea of a favorite publisher, is kind of retarded. (This would also apply to things like record labels, btw.)

And in the post I wrote, I also mentioned David Lapham's Stray Bullets and Paul Pope's 100% as being amazing, and recommended them to all.

fantagraphs got greedy with the complete peanutes. i think overall, top shelf has the best up and comings superstars. everyone talks about craig thompson, but i am going to bring up two other great cartoonists they have:
scott morse
james kochalka

[Ah_Pook]

This isn't even me going "yay Fantagraphics!" It's me saying that any statement as to a best publisher, or even the idea of a favorite publisher, is kind of retarded. (This would also apply to things like record labels, btw.)

but but but

ah screw it

these kids today and so forth