sleep, that's where i'm a viking

[alistarr*]

edison, you'll know this better than me i'm sure, but couldn't "Dormir, c'est là que je suis le plus fort" be translated as "that's where i'm the strongest (of people)"? in which case it's inconclusive at best, strong/fort being in both french and english a word with a couple of meanings - he could still mean either that he's strong in his dreams or that he's stronger than his peers in the field of sleep (again, i may be wrong - my french speaking life ended in high school).

it's also entirely possible that the translators were playing a touch freely with the phrase as they surely do in lots of places.

it seems clear to me that ralph is talking literally and in the simplest of terms, being as this is the very purpose of his character in the show. ralph is not a character who invents analogies to describe his actions or his attitudes toward things, and if ralph says he is a viking then surely, for his statement to fit with the nature of every other statement bar none that he has made on the show, he really must mean that he is a god damn axe wielding heathen sailing from the north. i mean come on, "that's where" as a phrase from ralph wiggum's mouth? it just doesn't fit. if he meant he was good at sleeping he'd say one of two (okay, three) things: "i like sleeping!", "i'm good at sleeping!", or "sleeping makes me (feel) ...".

though i'm not entirely sure why this one line needs so much interrogation. it's a throwaway gag, people.

finally, descartes was french so i'm not entirely sure why you're translating i sleep therefore i pillage into latin.

[edison]

edison, you'll know this better than me i'm sure, but couldn't "Dormir, c'est là que je suis le plus fort" be translated as "that's where i'm the strongest (of people)"? in which case it's inconclusive at best, strong/fort being in both french and english a word with a couple of meanings - he could still mean either that he's strong in his dreams or that he's stronger than his peers in the field of sleep (again, i may be wrong - my french speaking life ended in high school).

I hadn't thought about that, and it's a very good point. I don't really know what to answer except that if it was "fort/strong" and not "fort/best" the sentence probably would be phrased differently (even if it's still correct using both interpretations, it just feels a bit awkward) - actually, there would be no need to change the original phrasing in the first place, I think. But that's my interpretation, and we could certainly start a whole new thread on this French translation. Sounds like fun, eh?

[hannah]

At the end of the latest Ask the AV Club, they write that next week they'll feature "Bob Dylan mystery album, the origins of a comedy catchphrase, and more."

I e-mailed them last Sunday with this query, but they never responded or anything; it could be, though, that "the origins of a comedy catchphrase" will indeed apply to vikings and the like! We'll see! Stay tuned, you all!

Edit: I just reread my query. I forgot a preposition in it. Oh, well. I FAIL.

[alistarr*]

I hadn't thought about that, and it's a very good point. I don't really know what to answer except that if it was "fort/strong" and not "fort/best" the sentence probably would be phrased differently (even if it's still correct using both interpretations, it just feels a bit awkward) - actually, there would be no need to change the original phrasing in the first place, I think. But that's my interpretation, and we could certainly start a whole new thread on this French translation. Sounds like fun, eh?

another thing i just thought of was that surely the french translation has to deal in some way with ralph's voice and getting across the way he speaks and phrases things, as it's pretty much the defining aspect of his character. can purely literal translations work like that?

translation for artistic purpose is a pretty fascinating thing to me, simply because of its difficulty, and the idea of whether the finished translation is a collaboration or an intepretation or a butchery or whatever else , but i actually think i've written a great deal about it her about a year ago, so i'll keep my trap shut until someone else starts that particular discussion.

[edison]

I hadn't thought about that, and it's a very good point. I don't really know what to answer except that if it was "fort/strong" and not "fort/best" the sentence probably would be phrased differently (even if it's still correct using both interpretations, it just feels a bit awkward) - actually, there would be no need to change the original phrasing in the first place, I think. But that's my interpretation, and we could certainly start a whole new thread on this French translation. Sounds like fun, eh?

another thing i just thought of was that surely the french translation has to deal in some way with ralph's voice and getting across the way he speaks and phrases things, as it's pretty much the defining aspect of his character. can purely literal translations work like that?

I should have mentioned that I reproduced the subtitles, not the dubbed translations. But I did listen to the French dubbing as well, and I think it was exactly the same thing. You make a very good point, but in this case I do think they could have kept the "viking" stuff and make it still sound OK and natural for Ralph. From what I know, there are good chances that these translators have work conditions that don't leave them time to think about this kind of stuff for more than two minutes, sadly.

[plainenglish]

So, I did some elementary research on the DVD while the board was down, and I am absolutely appalled to report that if the foreign translations are anything to go by, Mr. Nog and other "lateral-thinking motherfuckers" may be right.

French = "Dormir, c'est là que je suis le plus fort" ("Sleep, that's where I'm the best!")
Dutch = "Slapen, daar ben ik goed in" (I don't know any dutch, but I'm guessing that's "Sleep, now that's something I'm good at")
Portuguese = "Ena, pa, dormir! E nisso que sou um Viking" (any Portuguese-speaking people around? I'd have to ask my ladyfriend, but she's not around. Sounds like it's just the literal, equally ambiguous translation anyway)

This said, I'd like to point out that translators can be serious lateral-thinking motherfuckers, too. I should know: I'm one (a translator, that is). The case is therefore NOT closed.

edison, you'll know this better than me i'm sure, but couldn't "Dormir, c'est là que je suis le plus fort" be translated as "that's where i'm the strongest (of people)"? in which case it's inconclusive at best, strong/fort being in both french and english a word with a couple of meanings - he could still mean either that he's strong in his dreams or that he's stronger than his peers in the field of sleep (again, i may be wrong - my french speaking life ended in high school).

Yes, "le plus fort" means "the strongest", and we have no evidence that in French this idiomatic phrase would be interpreted as "I am the strongest at sleep".  It is my opinion that it means something like "That's where I am the strongest" as in, he dreams that he is a very strong man.

re: Dutch translation, "(I don't know any dutch, but I'm guessing ....)" disqualifies this statement as evidence.  Ya got nothin' one way or the other until you get a native-speaker translation.

Same for Portugese.

I am not persuaded.

By the way, what forum is linking to this conversation?  I feel so famous! (hyuk)

[edison]

re: Dutch translation, "(I don't know any dutch, but I'm guessing ....)" disqualifies this statement as evidence.  Ya got nothin' one way or the other until you get a native-speaker translation.

Haha, we have to wait for a Dutchman or alex (who speaks Dutch), then. Or GI, who I think knows Afrikaans? But I do know German and English, and unless there is some kind of obscure trick to this Dutch sentence, the translation is pretty obvious, really.

[jebreject]

At the end of the latest Ask the AV Club, they write that next week they'll feature "Bob Dylan mystery album, the origins of a comedy catchphrase, and more."

I e-mailed them last Sunday with this query, but they never responded or anything; it could be, though, that "the origins of a comedy catchphrase" will indeed apply to vikings and the like! We'll see! Stay tuned, you all!

I'm so excited!  And I just can't hide it!

[hannah]

At the end of the latest Ask the AV Club, they write that next week they'll feature "Bob Dylan mystery album, the origins of a comedy catchphrase, and more."

I e-mailed them last Sunday with this query, but they never responded or anything; it could be, though, that "the origins of a comedy catchphrase" will indeed apply to vikings and the like! We'll see! Stay tuned, you all!

I'm so excited!  And I just can't hide it!

I wish to point out that I posted the above at 3:49am my time, which means that I choose to think about vikings even when I am not sleeping. Also, that I seem to check the AV Club obsessively. Huh.

I wish it said "interpretations," not "origins," because "origins" could easily be about something else, although I'm not sure what "comedy catchphrase" has questionable origins. Now I'm going to spend a lot of time Google-searching such things. Hurray! Life is terrific, yes?

[Greg Nog]

Earlier today, I searched Google for "Ralph Wiggum Viking", and saw that there have been quite a few forums talking about this.  crystal, did you originally hear about this disagreement on another forum, or was your question an extension of a non-internet conversation?

[YojimboMonkey]

Yeah, the thought that we're just part of some retarded internet meme really bugs me

[hannah]

Earlier today, I searched Google for "Ralph Wiggum Viking", and saw that there have been quite a few forums talking about this.

Hilarious!

http://bored.knockknockrecords.com/index.php/topic,29155.0.html
http://board.crewcial.org/topic/201813/&r=419
http://forums.hipinion.com/viewtopic.php?t=180037&sid=a1f3c49e231432e203697d156c116247

[jebreject]

The hipinion thread definitely came outta this thread:  http://zeroatthebone.com/quetch/viewtopic.php?t=1644

Also some kids from that board called and asked about it on WFMU's Best Show or whatever it's called.  I didn't listen but evidently they interpreted it as being Ralph literally dreaming of being a viking.

[crystalcakes]

Earlier today, I searched Google for "Ralph Wiggum Viking", and saw that there have been quite a few forums talking about this.

Hilarious!

http://bored.knockknockrecords.com/index.php/topic,29155.0.html
http://board.crewcial.org/topic/201813/&r=419
http://forums.hipinion.com/viewtopic.php?t=180037&sid=a1f3c49e231432e203697d156c116247

the first one is where i was with real life friends who were annoying me.  hence why i posted it here.  another guy from there then posted it to crewcial based on the same reason. 

we are getting around!  everyone is fighting.  i thought for sure one side would be stronger.

[crystalcakes]

who the shit created an account at knockknock?  it's one of you.   i thought it was greg, but the dude says he's not.  come clean, douches.

[El_Josharino]

I still say Freddy is right.

[elpollodiablo]

Alright this thread has gone from being one of the best things ever to sort of making me sick to my stomach

This argument is about more than showing strong hipster sack people c'mon


Also the translation thing is pretty conclusive, you ask me. Y'all incorrect motherfuckers are just grasping at straws, now.

[elpollodiablo]

Also from looking at the first page of posts from that gimp ass forum sporting the chuck taylor I've concluded that those people are not vikings at thinking or being alive

[jebreject]

The translation thing = conclusive?  Hardly.

[died_trying]

i'm so late to this party it's almost not worth joining, but since they seem to be in the minority i thought i'd chime in to say that immediately after reading that excerpt my brain reached the same conclusion as greg's, freddy's, pollo's, el_josh's etc.

also i think maybe you people are giving the writer's too much credit. ie maybe they don't get so much into a character's head as to question whether he has the mental capacity to assimilate metaphor into everyday speech. i say this having never worked in/known anyone who has worked in television, while tv represents some of your livelihoods, so y'know maybe i'm out to lunch there.

but i just don't think the literal interpretation is even remotely funny, whereas the completely random metaphor is good for a cheap laff, which is what i think they were going for.

[alex]

Haha, we have to wait for a Dutchman or alex (who speaks Dutch), then. Or GI, who I think knows Afrikaans? But I do know German and English, and unless there is some kind of obscure trick to this Dutch sentence, the translation is pretty obvious, really.

There's no obscure trick to the Dutch sentence, no. That said, never trust a translator

[Good Intentions]

I have to say, the Dutch simply means "Sleep, that's something I'm good at".

[alex]

Yeah, that's what I meant to say too. It's also the interpretation that I'm leaning towards, myself, but at the same time, I doubt that the translators had any insights into this matter that we do not have, so I wouldn't give too much weight to that.

[hannah]

This argument is about more than showing strong hipster sack people c'mon

I do not get how that is what is happening

Also the translation thing is pretty conclusive, you ask me..

Nope -- interesting, I'd say, but hardly conclusive

see, for instance, the end of Breathless

[elpollodiablo]

Then girl got all self parodical and SHIT WAS PROPER