Television Thread: this time, nonotyet didn't do it.

[dieblucasdie]

"Dexter, you look like something's troubling you. How about we learn you how to be a serial killer. Would ya like that? Would ya?"

I'm not saying it doesn't stretch belief; I'm saying you're a tool for caring.

"Cold-blooded mob boss, you so sad, let's talk about your feewwwings for 7 seasons."

[hannah]

I think Big Love is good when I don't notice the sitcom lighting and Bill Paxton and the shitty sets. I think it is bad when the oldest brother says to his sister, "What do you want from me?" In other words, sometimes I was able to suspend my disbelief, and then it was decent. When I couldn't, it was gimmicky and cliched and it sucked. Don't see why caring about that makes one toolish!

And now I am Pollo.

[elpollodiablo]

See, nothing on any HBO/Showtime series is as ridiculous as the premise of Dexter. If it could compensate with quality writing, believable characters or fine acting, I'd be willing to give it much more credit. Unfortunately it has none of these things. And blucas pretending that a mobster going to therapy is somehow on the same level of ricockulousness as a blood spatter analyst who was trained to serially murder people by his father is fucking ricockulous in itself.

OH NOES THE ICE TRUCK KILLER IS AT THE HOCKEY RINK

Also the woman that plays his sister is possibly the worst actress working on non-network television

[elpollodiablo]

I think Big Love is good when I don't notice the sitcom lighting and Bill Paxton and the shitty sets. I think it is bad when the oldest brother says to his sister, "What do you want from me?" In other words, sometimes I was able to suspend my disbelief, and then it was decent. When I couldn't, it was gimmicky and cliched and it sucked. Don't see why caring about that makes one toolish!

And now I am Pollo.

Ha!
I was really into the second season of Big Love when it was airing, because I was totally caught up in the story. But it does have some glaring problems... I think you're the one that called it insubstantial? There wasn't a single thing in it that gave me pause, or brought me back for a second viewing. Still pretty entertaining.

[ellaguru]

n.b. I haven't seen Dexter.

One episode left in the fourth season.

I have the first disc of the first season of The Shield. Should I watch it? Or will it suffer in comparison to The Wire?

I like The Shield. Especially the second season (I remember watching season two, saying "hey, CCH Pounder is the best thing about this show. How did I totally not notice her last year?"). It's not very similar to The Wire except the bit where both shows are about cops.

But yes, of course it will suffer in comparison with The Wire.

[dieblucasdie]

See, nothing on any HBO/Showtime series is as ridiculous as the premise of Dexter. If it could compensate with quality writing, believable characters or fine acting, I'd be willing to give it much more credit. Unfortunately it has none of these things. And blucas pretending that a mobster going to therapy is somehow on the same level of ricockulousness as a blood spatter analyst who was trained to serially murder people by his father is fucking ricockulous in itself.

OH NOES THE ICE TRUCK KILLER IS AT THE HOCKEY RINK

Also the woman that plays his sister is possibly the worst actress working on non-network television

See, if you only ever said this about Dexter, fair enough, the premise is a little out-there.  But "I couldn't suspend my disbelief" is your stock one-line dismissal of everything you don't like.  After the tenth time hearing it, it's pretty obvious that it says less about the things you're hating on and more about you having a small-minded, overly rigid, and completely arbitrary set of storytelling standards.

For the record, though, I think Michael C. Hall's performace is what keeps it from being ridiculous.  Somewhere around early-to-mid season 1 he does a complete 180 on the way he's playing Dexter (you'd never see him do something like the hammy "LOOK WHAT YOU DID" in the pilot now).  Seems like for a while he was playing off the books, then just decided to stop.

[elpollodiablo]

What the fuck are you talking about? I won't buy a show about a 17 year old private detective or a mass murdering police investigator and I'm suddenly narrow minded?

[jebreject]

pollo makes a good point, chris

[Aglaya]

But "I couldn't suspend my disbelief" is your stock one-line dismissal of everything you don't like.

Honestly, that's a pretty valid dismissal.  If you can't suspend your disbelief, and not everyone can for the same things, how are you supposed to enjoy it?  I had the same reaction to Veronica Mars, despite everyone I know loving it.  It just seemed ridiculous and unbelievable to me, the same way that some of the things that I love and find very entertaining would seem ridiculous and unbelievable to other people.

[jebreject]

Well, okay, but I mean, honestly, why does something have to be "believable"? Really? I mean, I understand, sometimes you just can't get into something, and that's fine; there are plenty of tv shows and movies where I just wanna yell WTF at the screen. But good entertainment is not predicated on believability.

[diesel_powered]

"Dexter, you look like something's troubling you. How about we learn you how to be a serial killer. Would ya like that? Would ya?"

Dexter was well on his own way to being a serial killer before his adoptive dad got to him. His dad just told him how not to get caught and to only kill bad guys. Which sounds absurd on paper, but go with me here.

Aaaaand I'm too tired to make a long and well-reasoned argument, but the gist of it is as follows:
Saying "I just couldn't suspend my disbelief" isn't a valid criticism because you're refusing to accept the rules of the game. The show is a work of fiction and therefore one of the precepts of entering into dialog with the work is that you have to accept its premise. It's not the job of the author to make the story "believable" to you because there's no inherent truth to establish, only a system of facts (or "rules") to create and a story to create around them. Consequently, it's irrelevant how "believable" the story is.

And I just stumbled upon an episode of the Twilight Zone with early Dennis Hopper as a neo Nazi. And boy did that guy have that Twilight Zone look of vague confusion down... And the ghost of Hitler is pretty demanding for being a construction of Dennis Hopper's addled brain.

[FreddyKnuckles]

I mean, eventually you're going to run into this problem with any creative work. 

Could all of those awful things really happen to Jurgis Rudkus?  It's likely that 1 or 2 or even 3 or 4 of those things could happen to him, but the piling on? Not really believable if you ask me. 

You have to "suspend your disbelief" to enjoy almost any creative work, there hillary.

[Aglaya]

Well, okay, but I mean, honestly, why does something have to be "believable"? Really? I mean, I understand, sometimes you just can't get into something, and that's fine; there are plenty of tv shows and movies where I just wanna yell WTF at the screen. But good entertainment is not predicated on believability.

It's not that it has to be believable, it's just that you have to be able to suspend your disbelief, and different people can do that for different things.  That's why there are shows you love and shows you hate.  Some people are willing to pretend they can believe in a magical island with monsters, some are willing to pretend they can believe in cavemen who live in the modern world, etc, and some people aren't willing to pretend to believe in those things.  I'm sure there are people out there who aren't willing to pretend to believe in any TV show that exists.

[elpollodiablo]

You guys are so full of shit. As I said, I'm perfectly willing to suspend my disbelief if the narrative warrants it. But when it's an hourlong ham fisted cheese fest every week, I'm not as generous. I start to notice things, like the premise itself is fucking stupid.

[FreddyKnuckles]

Ok Hillary

[elpollodiablo]

Thanks, Mitt

[Andrew_TSKS]

this thread has been continued here.