the continuing story of the 2008 political election

[diesel_powered]

*snicker* labial-velar approximant *snicker*

[andronicus]

QUIET DIESEL, THE ADULTS ARE SPEAKING.

[diesel_powered]

*snicker* ADULTS *snicker*

[Andrew_TSKS]

ok, so msnbc ended their coverage for the evening with louisiana's gop race still too close to call. and hey, washington's too! get this: with 35% or so reporting in washington, the numbers i saw were: mccain 26%, huckabee 24%, paul 21%, romney 16%. what the FUCK is going on up there in the pacific northwest?

i guess i'll see you guys tomorrow for the MAINE caucuses! holy shit, this race is crazy.

[elpollodiablo]

It is nice to have a replacement for football

[Thermofusion]

CNN is still calling its election coverage Ballot Bowl '08

[mackro]

hey guys, haven't dropped in inna while.

So, um, Seattle is all about Obama more than I thought. yowza.  I voted for Obama today not realizing that a gazillion people were going to do the same.  The minority of Clinton supporters were very civil and sweet, as were all of us i.e. "we will vote for whoever wins the nomination for the Dems".  I know it's naive but I'm totally so happy right now.

[elpollodiablo]

What's up, homie

Obama stomped some shit in your state, no doubt. And he was looking pretty damn presidential tonight, especially following on the heels of HC's address.

[jebreject]

I'm okay with a Mormon presidnet

Alan Sparhawk '08

[John]

  To support Clinton solely because she's a woman is equally ignorant as supporting Obama just because he's black. 

I don't think either of those would be "ignorant," because I don't think directly addressing the grotesque power imbalance in this country is a bad thing

[John]

richard, you and my fiance definitely need to talk

Also Dave, yeah, I'm watching the speech. Dude definitely has some great ideas, and I'll be behind him 110% if he's our man in the general. I'm not down on Obama, especially. I think you guys just took my semi-enthusiastic endorsement of HC a little personally.

a lot of Obama supporters are like this, if you don't think their dude is both JFK & Jesus yr the enemy

[Good Intentions]

In all honesty, I've reached the point where I can't stomach hearing anymore about this whole goddamned thing.

I've been as interested an observer as any out here, but I've had my fill. Set all of them on fire for all I care.

(OK, I was saying that while I was still checking the haps every few hours, but you know what I mean).

[Good Intentions]

OK, I'm sitting here trying to figure out why I felt necessary to post that. I think it's that if you're following this at all, you're supposed to be invested in it down to your bones and sinew. It asks this unwholesome commitment from everybody just to be looked at, kind of like the Sirens. I'm kind of fucking freaked out about how worked up people are getting about this, and seeing the juggernaut chug through the streets a good few months before the festivals kind of fills me with dread.

Obama is still a cardboard cutout, McCain someone who manages to get belligerent about business as usual, and HC an appendage of the age-old government machine.

[Antero]

I'm kind of fucking freaked out about how worked up people are getting about this

Dude, this is the first time anyone's given an actual shit about the primaries in a while.

Let's rephrase that

This is the first time a large number of Americans have decided to become politically engaged enough as to actually want to have some influence on their parties' candidates in a while.

I realize it might look odd from where you are, but as far as recent American politics goes it's pretty remarkable.

[silentsigh89]

Well, GI, this is the first year I'm allowed to vote! it adds a whole new element for me. But otherwise, I mean, I think that what you see here in this thread might be one of the primary outlets for election excitement? it is for me at least. I only have one friend here who actually cares about it, and he's a huckabee supporter! It's nice to at least read about other people who are excited about the fact that we have some viable candidates this time around.

After the last presidential election was so disappointing (being the SUPERTOUGH 15 year old that I was, I cried when Bush won), it's nice to see people feeling like they might be able to keep such things from happening again. they learned their lesson when it comes to not participating. Or at least some of them did!

[SPACERACE]

you're friends with someone that thinks a mike huckabee presidency would be best for the people in this country?

[elpollodiablo]

richard, you and my fiance definitely need to talk

Also Dave, yeah, I'm watching the speech. Dude definitely has some great ideas, and I'll be behind him 110% if he's our man in the general. I'm not down on Obama, especially. I think you guys just took my semi-enthusiastic endorsement of HC a little personally.

a lot of Obama supporters are like this, if you don't think their dude is both JFK & Jesus yr the enemy

I'm telling you, I've never seen a campaign whose boosters were like personally offended if you stood with someone else.

[diesel_powered]

I'm kind of wary of that, actually. Maybe it's a symptom of Bush: year 8?

[Antero]

I'm telling you, I've never seen a campaign whose boosters were like personally offended if you stood with someone else.

You kidding me?  Are you sure we live in the same country?

[Thermofusion]

  To support Clinton solely because she's a woman is equally ignorant as supporting Obama just because he's black. 

I don't think either of those would be "ignorant," because I don't think directly addressing the grotesque power imbalance in this country is a bad thing

I find the implications of what you're saying frankly unnerving.

Let's say a man walks into a voting booth.  There's a referendum on allowing gay marriage in his state, and he votes against it because he believes that both a man and a woman are required to anchor a healthy, happy family.  He believes it's crucial to the development of a child that the kid has both a mommy and a daddy.  And this is the only reason he votes against gay marriage.

Obviously he's ignorant.  The implication of what his vote says is this: that a family consisting of, say, an alcoholic, violent father and a negligent, pill-popping mother is inherently healthier for the development of a child than one consisting of two loving, kind-spirited, wonderful human beings who happen to be gay.

Well, how is this theoretically different from voting for the white candidate solely because he's white?  Or voting for the female candidate solely because she's a woman?  Or voting for a black man only on the basis that he's black?  Or voting straight Republican, or straight Democrat, with nary an eye toward what the candidates actually stand for?  The hard truth to swallow is that its not theoretically different.  These are all votes cast on nothing more than personal biases, superficial differences and a failure to actually examine the candidates, where they stand and how they'll impact your life. 

That's not to say it's inappropriate to allow personal bias into your voting choices.  It's almost inevitable that you WILL vote partially based on bias. 

But let's say there's a woman who votes for Hillary.  Let's say that 65% of why she votes for Clinton is because she's proud to see a woman make it this far.  And the remaining 35% of why she chooses Clinton is based on issues, stances, platforms, etc. 

Now let's also say there's a black man who votes for Obama solely because Obama is black.  As in, that is absolutely the only reason he thinks Obama is the most qualified candidate to lead the country.  100% of his decision is based on this. 

Well, both votes count.  Both are valid.  But the man who voted for Obama allowed personal identity to be the ONLY factor in a decision-making process that will impact EVERY person in America, REGARDLESS of everyone else's identity, or race, or sex.  And the woman who voted for Clinton at least made inroads toward being an informed voter, toward giving herself a reality check, toward recognizing that ultimately what makes the best candidate doesn't have to do with identity or skin color or sex.  That's not to say there's nothing wrong for voting because you identify with someone based on sex or skin color.  But that should NEVER be the SOLE REASON. 

As is pretty obvious by now, I'm an Obama supported.  And yes, part of why I'm voting for him is because he's black, and even though I'm whiter than the paint on Aunt Polly's fence, it fills me with vicarious joy to see African Americans so excited about someone they can actually believe in.  And it also fills me with joy to see my female friends jazzed up that there's a strong, intelligent, empowered woman leading the Presidential race.  But, you know what?  I have to pinch myself.  Everytime I see Obama speak, I find it impossible to get caught up in the almost revival-like atmosphere, the near religious fervor, and the thousands of young voters who are actually inspired to get involved in politics.  But I've had to pinch myself.  I've had to examine where he stands, recognize and acknowledge his weaknesses and search in my soul for the answer to whether he's the best candidate or not. 

I've done those things, and I'm still an Obama supporter.  Some may pinch themselves and immediately move into the Clinton camp.  But, for God's sake, don't make a decision that will impact the entire planet based solely on someone's skin color or the set of genitals they've got between their legs.  I just cannot fucking support that. 

[FreddyKnuckles]

  To support Clinton solely because she's a woman is equally ignorant as supporting Obama just because he's black. 

I don't think either of those would be "ignorant," because I don't think directly addressing the grotesque power imbalance in this country is a bad thing

Would you vote for condoleeza rice?

[dieblucasdie]

A *more* direct way of addressing said power imbalance is to vote for the candidate who's strongest on women's issues.  That was pretty clearly Edwards.  Obama and Clinton are more or less the same, though, as I pointed out upthread, because Clinton feels confident in her support from women, she likes to conservative up her rhetoric w/r/t reproductive rights a bit.  This worries me. 

But yeah, I pretty much want to kill myself when any of the pundits try to talk about gender or race.  It's going to be a long year.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Clinton feels confident in her support from women, she likes to conservative up her rhetoric w/r/t reproductive rights a bit.

i haven't noticed this at all. what sort of things is she saying?

[Nick]

something about abortion being a tragedy iirc

[Andrew_TSKS]

oh man, THAT? we had a big fight about that on here. i don't even wanna go there again.