Super Tuesday 2! Election primary 08

[ellaguru]

So, am I alone in thinking that quoting the very sentence where someone specifically includes the phrase "off the record" is not cool?

[diesel_powered]

Stupid poor people. Don't they know we wealthy urban liberals know what's best for them?

There was an NPR story about this just today... 

[Andrew_TSKS]

So, am I alone in thinking that quoting the very sentence where someone specifically includes the phrase "off the record" is not cool?

the interviewer says that he told her in advance that the entire interview would be on the record. so apparently that means she doesn't get to mix off-the-record statements in.

not sure how i feel about that either.

[dieblucasdie]

Stupid poor people. Don't they know we wealthy urban liberals know what's best for them?

Yeah 'cause Clinton is a coal miner.

[elpollodiablo]

A large part of her constituency are, however

[dieblucasdie]

But a larger number of working-class people are part of the GOP constituency; what's your point?

[elpollodiablo]

My point is that Obama appeals to the educated affluent, while Clinton appeals more to the working class and implying that working class people are being duped somehow because they identify more with her than with him is fucking stupid

[davy]

My point is that Obama appeals to the educated affluent, while Clinton appeals more to the working class and implying that working class people are being duped somehow because they identify more with her than with him is fucking stupid

if any one group in this process is being portrayed as a bunch of dupes, it's all of us starry-eyed "ooh-he-can-speak-good" obama supporters.

[elpollodiablo]

Yeah well add some classism to that prejudice and I'll get just as pissed off on your behalf

[guanajuato]

honestly, her trajectory seems to be of a jagged bullet fired across a bright and deathly wasteland, straight into america's guts. but her utter lack of humanity has i gotta admit become slightly appealing to me. she doesn't mind doing anything to win, which might be just what the doctor ordered against the republicans who have a network of dirty tricks in place. we can hit on her for a shitty, slimy campaign, yet that might be the best strategy against the republicans who are capable of pretty much every blasphemy imaginable. her personality is like poison ivy, but damn, she's out to win, take no prisoners, etc. i can support that. it would feel almost ... good to have her as the nomination though i still favor obama. i get the sense she will fucking cheat to win. it's nice to consider doing the same shit to republicans that they've been doing to democrats.

[dieblucasdie]

I didn't see a complaint about the poor being "duped," I saw a complaint about Clinton lying and pandering (don't know how much stock I put in that, though).

[davy]

Yeah well add some classism to that prejudice and I'll get just as pissed off on your behalf

isn't it all classism of one sort or another? don't get me wrong, i don't mean to play the affluent victim here (not that i could--i am far from affluent), but still. "the educated crowd flocks to obama cuz he talks pretty" is an oversimplification, too.

[Thermofusion]

honestly, her trajectory seems to be of a jagged bullet fired across a bright and deathly wasteland, straight into america's guts. but her utter lack of humanity has i gotta admit become slightly appealing to me. she doesn't mind doing anything to win, which might be just what the doctor ordered against the republicans who have a network of dirty tricks in place. we can hit on her for a shitty, slimy campaign, yet that might be the best strategy against the republicans who are capable of pretty much every blasphemy imaginable. her personality is like poison ivy, but damn, she's out to win, take no prisoners, etc. i can support that. it would feel almost ... good to have her as the nomination though i still favor obama. i get the sense she will fucking cheat to win. it's nice to consider doing the same shit to republicans that they've been doing to democrats.

This makes some degree of bizarre sense to me

[Thermofusion]

Yeah well add some classism to that prejudice and I'll get just as pissed off on your behalf

isn't it all classism of one sort or another? don't get me wrong, i don't mean to play the affluent victim here (not that i could--i am far from affluent), but still. "the educated crowd flocks to obama cuz he talks pretty" is an oversimplification, too.

none of my friends in town are affluent, and most of us are Obama supporters, FWIW

[Andrew_TSKS]

My point is that Obama appeals to the educated affluent, while Clinton appeals more to the working class and implying that working class people are being duped somehow because they identify more with her than with him is fucking stupid

do you think the ones who support republicans are being duped? this is an honest question.

[dieblucasdie]

I don't know why I'm getting into this, though; I agree with pollo that those comments are really stupid on several levels.  I just think that "Clinton is the candidate of the working class" meme is pretty lulz.

edit:  NB I think all these people could give fuck-all about the working class, including Edwards.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Yeah well add some classism to that prejudice and I'll get just as pissed off on your behalf

isn't it all classism of one sort or another? don't get me wrong, i don't mean to play the affluent victim here (not that i could--i am far from affluent), but still. "the educated crowd flocks to obama cuz he talks pretty" is an oversimplification, too.

none of my friends in town are affluent, and most of us are Obama supporters, FWIW

but are you educated? because i have a feeling people will use that to nullify your point.

[Thermofusion]

but are you educated?

technically, yes; in practice, no.

[guanajuato]

I don't know why I'm getting into this, though; I agree with pollo that those comments are really stupid on several levels.  I just think that "Clinton is the candidate of the working class" meme is pretty lulz.

edit:  NB I think all these people could give fuck-all about the working class, including Edwards.

agree totally with the last sentence, x100.

[dieblucasdie]

I hope pollo gets into U of C so I can bitch about how he's part of educated elite all the time.   

[Andrew_TSKS]

hey, that's another point--does having education beyond high school automatically kick you out of the working class? what if you keep working working-class type jobs because your education doesn't actually qualify you to go work in an office building?

because see, i feel like this whole debate around working class voters and who they're in favor of automatically boots you out of the working class if you're educated, and i don't really see why that is.

[guanajuato]

it's just a label used to stick voters in categories, ostensibly to help find a pattern in things. it's media-driven, campaign-driven, class junk. in my opinion the internet has leveled the playing field by widely disbursing information. you can know anything. the new world is built on autodidact infodumps, and those who master them master the world.

[guanajuato]

AUSTIN, Texas – Hillary Rodham Clinton won the popular vote in Texas’ Democratic primary, but Barack Obama is poised to walk away from the state’s “primacaucus” with more delegates, if his current lead holds through June.

Based on her victory in the presidential primary, Clinton took 65 delegates to Obama’s 61. But based on early precinct convention returns, he could walk away with a 98-95 victory in overall delegates.

In Texas, the process of allocating those delegates takes months.

“It is important to remember that what happened Tuesday night was the first step in a three-step process,” said Hector Nieto, spokesman for the Texas Democratic Party. “The final allocation of the 67 delegates that the presidential candidates are vying for won’t be determined” until the party’s state convention in June.

[guanajuato]

oh, i gotta eat crow, pollo is right about a big hill obama ticket.

he's right again!!

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on Friday again raised the possibility that she might run with rival Sen. Barack Obama on the same Democratic presidential ticket. Speaking to voters in Mississippi, where Sen. Barack Obama is expected to do well in next week's primary, Clinton said, "I've had people say, 'Well I wish I could vote for both of you. Well, that might be possible some day. But first I need your vote on Tuesday."

It is the second time this week that she has hinted at a joint ticket with the Illinois senator; he has not ruled it out but says it is premature to be having those discussions.

[elpollodiablo]

I don't know why I'm getting into this, though; I agree with pollo that those comments are really stupid on several levels.  I just think that "Clinton is the candidate of the working class" meme is pretty lulz.

edit:  NB I think all these people could give fuck-all about the working class, including Edwards.

Just so we're clear, I am 100% with you on this. I don't think there is a candidate of the working class, and there likely never will be. I'm simply saying that she has many more working class supporters than Obama, and to characterize her base as being poor and gullible (and gullible because they're poor) is, as you said, really stupid on several levels. That's all I'm saying.