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657250 Posts in 9253 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 70 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: "Not the art of scholars but of illiterates." (new movie thread)  (Read 31404 times)
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Maaik
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« Reply #225 on: Aug 12, 2009, 09:48:47 AM »

Anyway, I should borrow your DVD of that or something. I've wanted to see it for years.

IIRC I actually promised Grace I'd pass it on to you, so it's all yours.

I'd like to throw my hat in--I'd really like to see this.  Or maybe I should try to get my own copy?
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Greg Nog
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« Reply #226 on: Aug 12, 2009, 10:24:31 AM »

Hey, TSKS and/or auto and/or anyone else:  Y'all seen Paris Is Burning?  It's a late-eighties documentary about drag queens in NYC.  I just downloaded it the other day, but haven't gotten around to watching it yet.

Paris is Burning is really great

Oh ho!  I'll bump that to the top of my viewing list, then.  Thanks.
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Bernard
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« Reply #227 on: Aug 12, 2009, 12:31:43 PM »

we need to set up movie nights on xbox live netflix. that was the SHIT, on the real.

Yes! I am totally up for this.
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G.C.R
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« Reply #228 on: Aug 12, 2009, 07:53:07 PM »

Anyway, I should borrow your DVD of that or something. I've wanted to see it for years.

IIRC I actually promised Grace I'd pass it on to you, so it's all yours.

I'd like to throw my hat in--I'd really like to see this.  Or maybe I should try to get my own copy?

PM me all y'alls addresses, whoever wants a copy. If I'm feeling profesh I might make some proper covers for it even. (mainly cos I designed the poster and i really like it)
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auto-da-fey
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« Reply #229 on: Aug 12, 2009, 07:57:33 PM »

I'm also happy to pass my copy around--I could hand it off to Andrew, and he could send it to Myke, etc.

of course, then they'd miss getting a nice handwritten not from the one and only G.C.R., but it would also save her a few bucks.
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Bernard
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« Reply #230 on: Aug 13, 2009, 11:22:10 AM »

Finally saw The Third Man for the first time last night and was a bit disappointed. I'm not sure what I was expecting. Perhaps I have just come to this film too late to appreciate it.
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #231 on: Aug 13, 2009, 11:40:58 AM »

The music really hurt it for me, as did the fact that I knew Orson Welles was eventually gonna show up, and therefore that Harry Lyme wasn't really dead. In fact, I'd had the entrance of Harry Lyme ruined for me by a magazine article years before I saw it. I think I'd have liked it if I hadn't been inundated with information about it before hand.

The tunnel scene at the end was still really cool.
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jm
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« Reply #232 on: Aug 13, 2009, 11:41:35 AM »

Man, really?  I love that movie.  Also I super love the theme.
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lastclearchance
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« Reply #233 on: Aug 13, 2009, 11:56:01 AM »

The music really hurt it for me, as did the fact that I knew Orson Welles was eventually gonna show up, and therefore that Harry Lyme wasn't really dead. In fact, I'd had the entrance of Harry Lyme ruined for me by a magazine article years before I saw it. I think I'd have liked it if I hadn't been inundated with information about it before hand.

Well, now you've ruined it for me!

(just kidding)
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #234 on: Aug 13, 2009, 11:59:20 AM »

Man, really?  I love that movie.  Also I super love the theme.

It'd be fine if they didn't play the first four bars of it over and over at least once every 30 seconds.
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girl
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« Reply #235 on: Aug 13, 2009, 04:12:27 PM »

Man, really?  I love that movie.  Also I super love the theme.

Agreed! Normally when a movie has a score that forces itself on you like that one does, it bothers me so much that I can't enjoy the movie, but I like it a lot in this case.
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Babar
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« Reply #236 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:03:11 PM »

i don't get it. if you like the watchmen comic, you're sure to like the movie, i'd think. they're pretty the same-ish except as jeb has said, the movie has a better ending. there's nothing wrong with not liking the watchmen, but if you don't like one, you don't like the other, i'd think.

qft

also, i think saying a book a movie is based on is better is somewhat strange even though i do it myself. those are two distinct artforms, each with it's own charms, that shouldn't be compared like that. it's like saying "mona lisa is a pretty good painting and all... but i like the person better", ok maybe not EXACTLY like that, but you get the picture.
« Last Edit: Aug 13, 2009, 05:10:33 PM by Babar » Logged

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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #237 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:05:13 PM »

Absolutely fucking not. MALIN AKERMAN, if nothing else.
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YojimboMonkey
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« Reply #238 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:10:16 PM »

Watchmen is fantastic. It's so beautiful and well-crafted, the best comic book adaptation i've seen. i can't imagine how it could have been better. although i agree with some who said that silk spectre's acting wasn't that great and some of the song choices were weird (i though times they are a-changing was great in the intro though).

Watchmen sucked less than I thought it would, but but it still missed the point in some major and a lot of minor ways.  There were a few setpieces (the Comedian's funeral for example) that were very literally translated from the page to the screen, and they were good in themselves but they had the effect of making the movie seem episodic and also accentuating the parts that diverged from the book.  Jackie Earl Haley was mostly good as Rorschach. Patrick Wilson was better than I expected as Nite Owl II. Blue pipe swingin CG Billy Crudup made Dr. Manhattan's increasing detachment from his human roots believable but was otherwise uninteresting.  The Comedian was pretty much dead on.  So far so good.  I didn't care for the casting and characterization of Ozymandias or Silk Spectre II but I'll leave that for now.

The violence--as violent as the comic book was--was a little over the top.  They've got Dr. Manhattan, early in his career, exploding gangsters instead of just melting their guns.  They've got Silk Spectre and Nite Owl seriously fucking people up.  I know, they're being movie badasses and this dude is known for his madcap random-slow-motion comic book combat.  But these are characters who are supposed to be horrified by the violence of the Comedian and Rorschach, and there is seriously nothing for them to hang that horror on in this movie.  Well, apart from the Comedian's attempted rape of the first Silk Spectre and shooting the pregnant Vietnamese chick.  Part of the point is that they're all crazy enough to dress up in costumes and beat people up, but there was still a spectrum of crazy in the comic book and I just don't see it in the movie.

I thought that the decision to make Dr. Manhattan the giant squid was interesting and worked well for the movie version of the story.  But the reason it worked was because so much of the human detail of the story was taken out.  I understand you can't make a 6-hour movie.  But when part of NYC is destroyed at the end, who do we care about?  A douchebag psychiatrist who's spent all of 30 seconds on screen?  The buildings?  The random people running?  Where is the visceral horror?

I'll tell you where the visceral horror is.  The fucking "love" scene in the owlship.  You ever watch those bad late-night Cinemax softporn movies, where two people make humping motions to a completely disconnected soundtrack (I swear I've seen one where there was some goofy-ass bluegrass playing while two people were getting it on in a fancy hotel room)?  Yeah, it was pretty much like that.  And I get that they were going for the punchline from the comic, but I found it uncomfortable.  I'm not saying "Won't somebody think of the children?" I just don't think it served much of a purpose.

Big long straight-from-the-book sequences separated by stuff that had been completely left out led to clumsy insertions of exposition in places, and awkward transitions.  I feel pretty certain that people unfamiliar with the book who saw the movie would be bewildered, and this has been supported by my own informal polling. 

There were also a lot of very minor changes in lines that bugged me, though it is going to sound very nitpicky to mention them.  But for example, in the prison break scene, when the fat guy reaches through the bars to grab Rorschach, talking about everything they have going for them and saying "What do you have?"  In the book, Rorschach says "Your hands.  My perspective."  That is absolute Rorschach right there.  In the movie, "Your hands.  My pleasure."  Huh?  What the fuck sense does that make?  None, they just wanted to "badass" it up for the screen.

Another shitty Rorschach moment is his ultimate one.  The one thing I really didn't like about Haley's characterization of Rorschach.  the "Of course, must protect Veidt's new utopia!  What are you waiting for?  DO IT!!!" moment.  I guess this is more about interpretation than anything, but I get a bitter angry resignation from that moment.  In the movie, they played it as Rorschach agreeing with them that he had to be killed, and he was asking, nearly begging Dr. Manhattan to do it.  Also WTF on having Nite Owl see that and then go slap around the pussified Ozymandias.  The end just didn't work for me.  And then the denouement, with Laurie telling her mom she knew the Comedian was her dad, none of that worked for me either.  I don't know, maybe I'd just been pulled too far out of it by that point. 

It sounds like I'm completely bashing it, and I shouldn't go too far in that direction as there were some things I liked about it.  But ultimately I think the movie was a failure.
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YojimboMonkey
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« Reply #239 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:12:08 PM »

words words words blah-di-fuckin-blah

also, i think saying a book a movie is based on is better is somewhat strange even though i do it myself. those are two distinct artforms, each with it's own charms, that shouldn't be compared like that. it's like saying "mona lisa is a pretty good painting and all... but i like the person better", ok maybe not EXACTLY like that, but you get the picture.

no it's more like "Mona Lisa is a good painting but this photograph of it kind of sucks"
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Babar
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« Reply #240 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:21:24 PM »

words words words blah-di-fuckin-blah

also, i think saying a book a movie is based on is better is somewhat strange even though i do it myself. those are two distinct artforms, each with it's own charms, that shouldn't be compared like that. it's like saying "mona lisa is a pretty good painting and all... but i like the person better", ok maybe not EXACTLY like that, but you get the picture.

no it's more like "Mona Lisa is a good painting but this photograph of it kind of sucks"

dude, this is a photograph of mona lisa:



and if you like the painting, you like this photograph.
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YojimboMonkey
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« Reply #241 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:24:16 PM »

OK now take the photograph and set it on fire in slow motion with a drop of blood flying at the camera and the analogy is complete
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Babar
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« Reply #242 on: Aug 13, 2009, 05:40:41 PM »

i think that'd be awesome and there lies the difference between you and me. let's just agree to differ.
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Maaik
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« Reply #243 on: Aug 13, 2009, 06:08:33 PM »

also, i think saying a book a movie is based on is better is somewhat strange even though i do it myself. those are two distinct artforms, each with it's own charms, that shouldn't be compared like that.

That is true, but one work of art is derived from the other and in that they are intrinsically linked.  Regardless of weather the adaptation might be considered successful or a failure, saying "this movie originated with this book.  How do the two stack up against each other?  Are they complimentary?  What is missing/expanded upon.  How does either medium serve the story in their unique ways?"  This is a logical course of critique in regards to an original vs. its adaptation.

That having been said, it then follows that if one feels that the adaptation failed in translating/expanding upon/responding to etc. the original work, then as a matter of opinion, I don't think it's imprudent to make the kind of judgment call like "the book is better than the movie."
« Last Edit: Aug 13, 2009, 06:10:49 PM by Maaik » Logged

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Babar
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« Reply #244 on: Aug 13, 2009, 06:28:35 PM »

yeah, i agree with a lot of that. i'm not saying it's never relevant to say something like that. but sometimes i think an adaptation is neither better or worse, just different, but often people think different is worse. (this does not apply to the watchmen film though, i like that film because it is very much similar to the book).
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YojimboMonkey
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« Reply #245 on: Aug 13, 2009, 09:20:32 PM »

I'm just saying, it's no Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon ya know?  pollo feels me
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #246 on: Aug 13, 2009, 09:54:40 PM »

AM I

THE MEANEST
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Ah_Pook
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« Reply #247 on: Aug 13, 2009, 09:59:04 PM »

the watchmen got so hung up on cramming everything from the book in instead of paring it down to a manageable movie and focusing on what was important. basically it was an hour too long, and it really fucking felt it. movies that overstay their welcome are a huge pet peeve of mine though, so i dunno.

im really excited about Ponyo and District 9 tomorrow.
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Maaik
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« Reply #248 on: Aug 13, 2009, 10:27:29 PM »

oh man, D9 looks like it's gonna be the shit!
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Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #249 on: Aug 13, 2009, 11:44:43 PM »

You know, saying that you're not allowed to judge whether the book or the movie is better is like saying you're not allowed to judge whether a cover song is better or worse than the original.
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