Association Football in The British Isles

[Nick Ink]

I won £20 on Ngog getting the first goal today - 7/1 seemed generous with Torres out.

Elsewhere, West Ham were the predictable shambles. Sigh.

[kyle]

Gareth Bale you beautiful Welshman. Does he get tired? I don't believe it. How much do you think he'd go for on the market now, getting a hat-trick against Inter in one half? They never gave up, and that's why I watch the Hotspurs.

I'd suggest you all watch the replay of the Tottenham vs. Inter Milan game. Footytube.com should have it up in a few hours. Turned an Italian rout into a respectable score line in about a minute.

[kyle]

Also Rooney is leaving Man U. Rumors of a move to Real, but I don't think he'd really fit playing Spanish Ball. I'd love to see him go to a good mid-table team in the EPL, make a big impact... if he can find his touch again.

[kyle]

So here I am again to talk about how good of a soccer player Gareth Bale is.

Today, in the rematch between Inter and Tottenham Bale had two assists, while making the number one right back in the world, Maicon, look like he wasn't even awake. Seriously, WATCH THIS GUY. It's amazing to see a world class player when he first hits his stride. It's as if everyone else is constantly trying to keep up.

[Nick Ink]

This has ruined my day.

[Ignatius]

It has ruined my night as well, since the delayed broadcast just came on 20 minutes ago. I should have been more careful given the thread title.

Why was your day ruined, Nick Ink?

[Nick Ink]

It has ruined my night as well, since the delayed broadcast just came on 20 minutes ago. I should have been more careful given the thread title.

Why was your day ruined, Nick Ink?

No,not really. Just, you know, Tottenham. Grrr. Best not talk about football, it brings out my darker side.

[kyle]

You hate Tottenham MORE than Inter?

EDIT: I mean, I know that I'm a dumb yank, but come on!

[Good Intentions]

Tottenham is a London club. In Nick's eyes, the wrong London club.

[Nick Ink]

Tottenham is a London club. In Nick's eyes, the wrong London club.

Yes. I'm afraid that when it comes to football, I'm as narrow-minded, parochial and tribal as the next idiot. Besides the 'Appy 'Ammers and my local team, Brighton & Hove Albion, the remaining 90 professional teams in England can all be placed somewhere on a sliding scale of fear and loathing, with the team you're talking about coming in somewhere in the first 3.

Couldn't care less about Inter Milan though - if they're not in the same competition as the Irons then their very existence is an irrelevance. Until, that is, they royally fail to put the sword to that team you're talking about.

[kyle]

I guess it's a bit beyond me being that I just sort of watch it for fun, though I have taken a liking and a disliking to certain teams.

As I don't like American Football, Baseball, or Basketball enough to get up in arms about it, and the MLS is kind of mediocre (especially MY team D.C. United), I latch onto foreign based footbal teams.

[alex]

Tottenham is a London club. In Nick's eyes, the wrong London club.

Yes. I'm afraid that when it comes to football, I'm as narrow-minded, parochial and tribal as the next idiot.

This is demonstrably untrue, by the way. It can be demonstrated by quoting your acknowledgement of your own parochialness.

(I'll take this back if it ever transpires that you spend your weekends beating up Tottenham fans.)

[Nick Ink]

Tottenham is a London club. In Nick's eyes, the wrong London club.

Yes. I'm afraid that when it comes to football, I'm as narrow-minded, parochial and tribal as the next idiot.

This is demonstrably untrue, by the way. It can be demonstrated by quoting your acknowledgement of your own parochialness.

(I'll take this back if it ever transpires that you spend your weekends beating up Tottenham fans.)

Thanks! No, I've never done anything violent, apart from a bit of over-exuberant slam-dancing at a Napalm Death gig in 1988 that is.

[Good Intentions]

... You went to a Napalm Death gig?

[Ignatius]

Tottenham is a London club. In Nick's eyes, the wrong London club.

Yes. I'm afraid that when it comes to football, I'm as narrow-minded, parochial and tribal as the next idiot. Besides the 'Appy 'Ammers and my local team, Brighton & Hove Albion, the remaining 90 professional teams in England can all be placed somewhere on a sliding scale of fear and loathing, with the team you're talking about coming in somewhere in the first 3.

Couldn't care less about Inter Milan though - if they're not in the same competition as the Irons then their very existence is an irrelevance. Until, that is, they royally fail to put the sword to that team you're talking about.

Let me know if I understand this - there need not be any longstanding rivalry between your club and another in order to draw your hatred as long as that club is also English? Particularly, from London? I assume the dislike is proportional to the success and payroll as well?

That's not that weird of a concept or anything, I'm just curious. In baseball, which is probably the closest sport to english football in as far as the league is structured (uncapped salaries, in-house youth development, disparity, etc.), fans of one team don't generally care how another team does unless they're competing for the same playoff spot. Obviously if they're playing one another it matters, and people hate the Yankees because they're successful and outspend everyone else.

I guess recently I've noticed some new tension between the two NYC baseball teams, but it's more of a contingent excuse for obnoxious people to behave obnoxiously than genuine friction between the clubs or their fanbases.

[coldforge]

New? Mets fans have always hated Yankees fans, and Yankees fans have always condescended to Mets fans.

[Ignatius]

I disagree. There was no serious rivalry before interleague play, and it has definitely intensified since then. Except for that brief moment in 2000, the teams' respective periods of success never really overlapped. Yankee fans openly rooted for the Mets in '86, and 2006 after the Yankees were knocked out. Obviously when two teams share a city the fans will have some competitive angst, but I don't think Mets fans hate the Yankees or their fans any more than the rest of the country.

But really, whether the fans get snippy with each other when they're out drinking is one thing. My main point was that a Mets win against a third opponent, even if it clinched a playoff series, would not ruin a Yankee fan's day and vice versa.

PS how could Yankee fans have 'always' condescended to the fans of a team that didn't even exist 'til a few years ago OHH!

[kyle]

See that was kind of my thinking. While I don't root for any other team in the MLS except for DC, if LA Galazy, who I don't like, beat any other team of some standing from another part of the world I'd be excited.

Maybe it's different being that the MLS has a bit to prove while the EPL is kind of the bees knees.

[Nick Ink]

Tottenham is a London club. In Nick's eyes, the wrong London club.

Yes. I'm afraid that when it comes to football, I'm as narrow-minded, parochial and tribal as the next idiot. Besides the 'Appy 'Ammers and my local team, Brighton & Hove Albion, the remaining 90 professional teams in England can all be placed somewhere on a sliding scale of fear and loathing, with the team you're talking about coming in somewhere in the first 3.

Couldn't care less about Inter Milan though - if they're not in the same competition as the Irons then their very existence is an irrelevance. Until, that is, they royally fail to put the sword to that team you're talking about.

Let me know if I understand this - there need not be any longstanding rivalry between your club and another in order to draw your hatred as long as that club is also English? Particularly, from London? I assume the dislike is proportional to the success and payroll as well?

That's not that weird of a concept or anything, I'm just curious. In baseball, which is probably the closest sport to english football in as far as the league is structured (uncapped salaries, in-house youth development, disparity, etc.), fans of one team don't generally care how another team does unless they're competing for the same playoff spot. Obviously if they're playing one another it matters, and people hate the Yankees because they're successful and outspend everyone else.

I guess recently I've noticed some new tension between the two NYC baseball teams, but it's more of a contingent excuse for obnoxious people to behave obnoxiously than genuine friction between the clubs or their fanbases.

Okay. Over the past 100-odd years, West Ham's most important traditional rivalry is with Millwall. Fortunately, the two teams are usually in different divisions and don't play that often. When they do, even in this modern age of sanitised, prawn-sandwich football, there tends to be trouble. As well as having a reputation for attractive football and for making up the core trio of England's 1966 World Cup-winning side, West Ham are also notorious for hooliganism - you know that film, Green Street? Unfortunately, that's all about The Inter-City Firm of West Ham.

Besides Millwall, there's an obvious antipathy towards other local (London) teams, particularly Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal. But rivalries have arisen for reasons other than location too. Sheffield United are now bitter foes, since their ludicrous attempts to blame us for their relegation in 2007, while Bolton Wanderers are also reviled, partly because they managed in 2005 with their artless brand of hoofing somehow to escape relegation at the expense of our extravagantly gifted team of under-achievers (household names and then and future international stars such as David James, Jermaine Defoe, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Paolo DiCanio and Frederic Kanoute were all too preoccupied with making the beautiful game more beautiful that season to bother with the tasteless matter of actually winning games). There's Man U too - everyone hates them. Even their own fans do, deep down, I think.

Beyond the top tier of Millwall, Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Sheffield United, Bolton and Manchester United, you could probably start to form a second group including Liverpool (cruelly denied us our first trophy in 25 years when Steven 'should-be-in-prison' Gerrard fluked a goal in the last minute of the 2006 FA Cup Final - utter, utter bastard), Everton (racists + we never win there), Reading (we stole their manager), Leeds (universally despised for inventing ugly football, the anti-Hammers), Man City (were alright, but now super-rich and quite embarrassing), Wolves (dirty), Blackburn (dirtier), Cardiff (assorted hooligan-related misdemeanours) and maybe Nottingham Forest (though it wasn't really their fault that the referee wrongly sent off West Ham's Tony Gale in the 1991 FA Cup semi-final, handing them a 4-0 win and ensuring that Gary Charles would go on to break Paul "Gazza" Gascoigne's leg in the final, thus ruining the career of arguably England's finest player for a generation).

I'm only joking about disliking everyone of course. I feel quite neutral towards Exeter, for example, and bear no serious ill will towards Aldershot, Chesterfield or Plymouth Argyle. But that could all change at any moment.

... You went to a Napalm Death gig?

Thought I'd slip that in! Yes! Back in the mid/late 80s, I went to 2 or 3 gigs a week, mainly indie but occasionally other things would come up. I saw Napalm Death at the Zap Club in Brighton. They were fun. I remember the singer repeatedly begging people not to be too rough because he was worried about a couple of girls at the front getting squashed.

On a strange tangent, I recently trained someone who'd been working for Blast First to be an English teacher too!

I also saw Extreme Noise Terror at Sheffield University - must've been 1989, I think. Not so much metal besides that, but lots of great concerts - Loop, Spacemen 3, Dinosaur Jr, the first Pixies/Throwing Muses show, The Go Betweens, The Chills, so maaaany bands.

[Good Intentions]

While I envy you for seeing all of the bands on that list, I must admit that Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror are surprises. I approve, of course, but they are just a little different from the other bands mentioned.

[Nick Ink]

While I envy you for seeing all of the bands on that list, I must admit that Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror are surprises. I approve, of course, but they are just a little different from the other bands mentioned.

Do you know of John Peel?  It was all his influence really.

[Ignatius]

Everton (racists + we never win there)

This is great.

eta: also, thanks for the detailed explanation!

[alex]

That whole post was golden, Nick.

[Nick Ink]

Heh - thanks! I can go on for pages about this - football is both my true love and, tragically, my nemesis. Little did my dear Dad know, on that fateful day in 1971 when he bought the age 2-3 replica shirt for his toddling Inklet, that the team known as "everyone's second-favourite club", "the Pride Of London" and recent engine behind the World Cup winning side would turn out to spend the next 37 years sucking goddamned dinosaur eggs.

[Ignatius]

It was probably a good idea to share your musical rather than sporting interests with your kids, then! Although I suppose there is an outside chance that they could be tormented by decades of subpar Fiery Furnaces albums, always looking forward to release day as a possible return to their Aughts form.

If it makes you feel any better, West Ham are my 'favorite' club thanks to the LPTJ connection. However I am too lazy to muster any enthusiasm whatsoever for professional soccer except the occasional Champions League match.