The NBA Thread

[Babar]

Older.

Actually very similar to the Lakers off-season.

[Ignatius]

I meant that Toronto (one win from making the playoffs) got impossibly, catastrophically worse, but whatever, the Celtics definitely didn't improve.

The Lakers slowed Rondo's offense way down by
1.) Giving him plenty of space at the perimeter/not biting on pass fakes
2.) Anticipating the pass when he drove/staying home on shooters
3.) Taking charges when he drove
4.) Getting back on defense immediately instead of fighting for long offensive rebounds

He can't shoot well. His offense is generated largely by taking advantage of mistakes and lazy passes. It's not like he's got a glass chin, but it's certainly possible to reduce his impact in a game.

Chris Paul wasn't a factor in the West last season, so if he leaves it's no big whoop for the purposes of this argument. Until Melo leaves, he's playing for a contract in Denver. It's pretty simple to me - until the West is the worse conference, the West is the better conference. In one conference, the 8th seed was a .500 team. In the other, the 8th seed had 50 wins and were one basket from pushing the eventual champions to a game 7. Even if the Bulls are suddenly an elite team, seeds 4-8 are still not contenders.

But really, this is about the Lakers. They beat the Magic, then they beat the Celtics. It's on the Heat to prove they're superior, not the other way around. For the record, I think the Lakers are getting a little older themselves and will probably show a few chinks in their armor this season. It's not like they went through the Celtics completely untouched, after all.

[Ignatius]

BTW lakers/celtics and oldness - Kobe is 32, Derek Fisher is a 36 year old point guard who has never depended much on athleticism and quickness in the first place. Everyone else is 30.

KG is 34
Paul Pierce is 33
Ray Allen is 35

The Celtics are Older.

The Lakers added Matt Barnes & Steve Blake, consistent, solid backups who play good defense to back up Artest and replace Jordan Farmar respectively. Barnes has played 70+ games in each of the last 4 seasons, Steve Blake played in 80+ in 3 of the last 4 except for one season when he missed 13 games.

The Celtics added Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq to plug holes in a front line with one injured starter and another who plays less than 30 minutes per game. Combined, they have played 70 games or more just twice since 2005-2006.

The Celtics are again older, and also significantly more worn down.

The Celtics offseason is in no ways similar to the Lakers.

[Captain]

The Celtics might might have improved.

Can you reduce Rondo's impact in the game?  Sure.  But I don't think you give him enough credit.  His game continues to evolve and anticipating his passes is harder than it sounds... as is drawing charges.  And while he doesn't shoot the lights out, he's certainly capable.  Further, I remember Rondo being the one with the ball to close out quarters in the postseason (as opposed to Pierce, who would seem to be the more obvious choice).  

With the Lakers, we'll see how the season pans out, I guess.  But I'm predicting complacency from them, to be honest.  But whatever, I don't watch the West enough.

And Iggy, how are we talking about East vs. West?  Is it 8th seed team vs. 8th seed team?  Then the West takes it, easy.  But I think there's more elite teams in the East, that's all there is to it.  And the OKC v Lakers match-up of last year is a bit of dishonest argumentation: OKC were the biggest challenge the Lakers faced in the post-season bar none.

I think I'm throwing my weight behind Orlando this year.  Which is weird for me, as a Cleveland fan.

x-post" O'Neals are definitely gambles... but could pay off big.  That's some serious size to contend with off the bench.

[Ignatius]

Who are the elite teams in the East? The Heat, Magic and Celtics? I like Orlando, but they're not very deep, for starters. And I dunno, doesn't it feel like their moment is over? Esp. now that they're not even the best projected team in their division? I don't see them as unquestionably superior to every non-Lakers team in the west. The Thunder are definitely better. I still think the Celtics have one more decent year in them... Nothing about that run to the Finals was flukey except LeBron's uselessness. But they're still one injury away from irrelevance, and I'd say their 'eliteness' is the most tenuous of all teams.

Honestly, the Lakers are so good that it's very difficult to evaluate WC teams besides them, because they all fail by the one measure that means anything - whether or not they should beat the Lakers in a 7 game series. It's extremely hard to evaluate superiority in the NBA across conferences because straight wins and losses in the regular season just don't mean all that much.

The Heat are unquestionably a powerhouse and I think their only fair match in the league at this point are the Lakers. As for everyone else, I see no reason to assume that the Celtics and Magic are better than, say, the Thunder or the Spurs.

[Captain]

The Magic have been killing it in the preseason.  Not that I think preseason is a big predictor, but your bench has to be somewhat good to win by upwards of 25 points a game, no?

I really think you're way off about Boston.  I can't point to a recent championship where experience didn't count for way more than youth.

[Babar]

The Celtics are Older.

yup

(actually there are 10 30+ players in LA and just 5 in C's)

[Ignatius]

Yes, but THE CORE OF THE CELTICS STARTING FIVE AND THEIR CENTERS AND FORWARDS WHERE AGE AND WEAR MATTER MOST ARE OLDER THAN THE CORRESPONDING PLAYERS ON THE LAKERS.

[Babar]

dude, 2/5 of the celtics starters are 25 or younger and just 1/5 of the lakers starting line up. and i'd say age and wear matter more to the guards, they rely more on quickness and the nba players who have had the longest careers tend to be centers.

but really, age ain't nothing but a number when it comes to the playoffs.

[dumbfish]

Older.

Actually very similar to the Lakers off-season.

Agreed. Pains me to admit it, but it's looking like Kobe and Bynum are gonna be limping all year. Gonna be interesting if they can outsmart/ outwork the West the way the Celts did the East last year.

Speaking of the grumpy Gusses, it's a real stretch to think that the O'Neals or Garnett will be better than they were last post-season. More realistically, they play a year older and that's not good. Also, we get to find out this year how much of the credit for their lockdown defense goes to Thibideau and how much to Garnett. That said, if Rondo learns to free throws and/or intermediate jumpers, look out.

[Greg Nog]

BASKEBALL TIME!!!

[dumbfish]

Good point.

[Greg Nog]

THROW IT UP TO THE HOOP NET THEN JUMP W/ UR LEGS

MAKE A SPORT WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

THNK U BASKETBALL

[Ignatius]

Guys the Eastern Conference looks pretty bad.

[Ignatius]

Ok all jokes aside, not a bad game. And not every team has a Shaq on the bench, but the Heat look a little weak when it comes to interior defense and rebounding. That's one thing I'd worry about that will probably not improve as they play together more and the team chemistry develops. Otherwise I don't really know what conclusions to draw.

Looking forward to the Lakers game, anyhow! But why am I rooting for the Lakers still? This is a weird feeling!

[Captain]

No conclusions to draw.

This Boston core unit have played together for years.  The Heat starters are completely new.  Without a doubt, Boston would have the edge.  This Boston team typically starts out seasons pretty strong anyways (or at least they have the past few years).  Will they keep up the intensity though?

Expect Miami to get better.  Expect Mike Miller to return.  In the meantime, I agree about the Miami rebounding.  I think their defense is a bit weak, too.  Sure, they've got some size and some length, but their help defense didn't seem stellar to me.  Of course, this has a lot to do with miscommunication, I imagine.

Nate Robinson did pretty much exactly what you said he'd do, Iggy.

[Babar]

That makes Boston 72-10 before Christmas since they got the big three. Great to have the season underway.

[Ignatius]

Too bad the playoffs are in June

[Thermofusion]

I'm not buying the Heat.

[Captain]

I'm not buying the Heat.

For any reason beyond that they lost a game to Boston?

[Thermofusion]

I'm just assuming they're lesser than the sum of their parts until proven otherwise; all of the media attention and lame bandwagon fans have spent considerable amounts of time fawning over the flashy pieces in their roster, but I haven't seen a whole lot of analysis w/r/t the question of how those pieces are supposed to fit together on the court.

edit: also, lots of quotes from various Orlando players and officials indicating frustration over how the media has already crowned Miami, so I expect the Magic to come out snarling venom.

[Ignatius]

The Heat basically turned into the Cavs when 'they' made that run late in the game. They also play in what is probably now the toughest division in the NBA, which is one reason why I think the 70-win talk is extremely misguided. 12 games against potential playoff teams is a big chunk of the season. But since LeBron was already winning 65 games 'by himself' there's almost no point in even trying to evaluate this team's dominance or not-dominance until April. LBJ has taken the best record in the NBA, the best team defense in the NBA, etc. to the playoffs before, and he's even been to the Finals. The only improvement he can expect to make on his success is winning a ring.

As far as the excitement surrounding the novelty of a superteam or whatever... I dunno? I mean, a lot of the more fun teams to watch in the NBA are often not the best, or not even good. The Hawks, the pre-Larry Brown Bobcats, the SSOL Suns all come to mind as excellent spectacle in recent years and they've ranged from legitimate contenders to non-playoff teams.

[Captain]

Cavs finally beat Boston!

Sorry for the Boston fans and, frankly, it's probably a fluke (back-to-back games for Boston)... but this is a good feeling.  I've watched the Cavs fall to Boston in the season opener for 2 years running now.  But with LeBron gone, we finally get the win???

Still, I thought the Cavs played ugly.  With the exception of Hickson and Varejao.  That's really weird, by the way: what happened with Varejao?

Anyways, a good start to the season!

[Ignatius]

dang! There's too much basketball tonight or else I would have loved to watch that game... I saw that the Cavs were up at the half, and I was intrigued...

Right now, the Spurs are up 66-65 at the half against the Pacers. Not playing much defense, but good lord are they pushing the ball upcourt. My friend suggests that Coach Pop is going out with a grenade in each hand.

[Ignatius]

re: ugly wins over the Celtics... I have yet to see a team triumph over the current Boston squad with sheer grace and athleticism. That's how it goes, I think.