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656129 Posts in 9234 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 19 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: Best Of 2010 - The preamble  (Read 15677 times)
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #225 on: Dec 08, 2010, 01:16:24 AM »

Yeah, I definitely don't see her as some sort of antidote to Miley Cyrus. She's a pop star too, and pop is the great equalizer and all. And I don't particularly care whether or not she writes her own songs. I know that the songs as they are register as gorgeous, and I've made the case before that she can be an excellent lyricist (she is all over Fearless; this record is a little overly-reliant on easy cliches, but I'll talk to you about the lyrics of "Enchanted" or "Sparks Fly" for hours if you let me; don't let me). Her best lyrics tend to home in on specifics, which pop pretty much never allows, so that's always really nice. Beyond that there's something about the ornate force of the melodies that tugs at the guts.

Pretty sure I'm not explaining this well at all. I wrote about her at length twice, if you're into that.
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #226 on: Dec 08, 2010, 01:21:14 AM »

Meanwhile I've apparently let my old blog go to hell.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #227 on: Dec 08, 2010, 07:17:22 AM »

I'm willing to believe that there's some formal or aesthetic qualities to the music that I just don't appreciate. To me, it sounds like vaguely country-inflected radio pop, not substantively different from the other hyper-produced autotuned love songs I hear and never think about (Katy Perry, Pink, Rihanna, etc., etc.). It's marginally sweeter, I guess would be the only distinction I could make? The only reason I'm at all interested is because she's achieved a critical cachet that isn't suggested by the music itself, but it all seems political. Not to suggest that your (or anyone else's) enjoyment of her music isn't sincere--I'm not a student of pop music (I don't, for example, even know what "pop is the great equalizer" means; I think you might be thinking of death), so perhaps I'm missing "the ornate force of the melodies," etc. It's not even that I don't like her songs, I just think they're unremarkable. I can see why Gaga's interesting in spite of her totally uninteresting music, but I don't get the fascination with Swift.
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jm
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« Reply #228 on: Dec 08, 2010, 08:27:52 AM »

I'm with epdo here.  Her music veers into Most Boring Type of Music for me (which, to be clear, is as said about - pop-country-inflected pop music. pop-country is already a fucking atrocity), and there's nothing particularly interesting about the melodies, or harmonies, or instrumentation to me.

I understand the push for people (where "people" = us quasi-snobs who do not primarily listen to pop music) to accept pop music as valid because "it's fun"—and yes, there is quite a bit of pop music that I would agree is "fun", and of that fun music, there is a handful of it that I would say that I actively like—but the Taylor Swift is outside of that, to me.  Taylor Swift makes exactly the kind of music I find most boring, and while I don't suspect everyone feels the same way, I certainly suspect that her music is being given MASSIVELY disproportionate attention due to the outreness of pop music among Us Nerds.
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jm
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« Reply #229 on: Dec 08, 2010, 08:45:53 AM »

I just said Taylor Swift way too many times. 
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nonotyet
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« Reply #230 on: Dec 08, 2010, 09:05:37 AM »

I can't speak for anyone else but me, but I think she's got this incredibly self-aware, precocious-for-19 quality that, depending on the minute of the day, rubs me the wrong way or makes me want to hang out with her (and tell her not to use so much lipstick, honey, people will like you anyway). When I say I think she is a robot I mean that no one can POSSIBLY know as much about life and boys and things that she sings about at age 19. I do not care how long you have been in the business, unless I know nothing about The Way Kids Grow Up anymore, which: this is entirely possible. But at the same time, she is totally awkward. She is still writing shit that relies way too much on fighting-dragons metaphors and "Better Than Revenge" is equivalent to a girl fight in a cafeteria and yes, "Never Grow Up" is one of the weakest songs on the album.  And/but, I like that quality, that juxtaposition. It makes her a humanish robot.  This is saying nothing about the actual music itself. Again, for me, I am a sucker for a pop hook, so I like what she does. I like that she allegedly or possibly her and her robot hordes writes the bulk of the music herself, which does kind of separate her from your Mileys and your Ke$has and your what have yous.

I was listening to Speak Now on the way into work this morning and this speech may or may not be colored by the fact that "Innocent" was playing and I was like "OH MY GOD I AM 32 AND HAVE FUCKED UP REALLY BAD A LOT LATELY TAYLOR SWIFT HOW DID YOU KNOW."
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Greg Nog
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« Reply #231 on: Dec 08, 2010, 11:03:45 AM »

The first time I ever heard Taylor Swift was not Taylor Swift at all!  Last fall, I was with some friends, picking apples at an orchard, and there was this like local Harvest Fall Festival thing going on, and there was a 13-ish-year-old girl on stage singing "You Belong To Me," which I'd never heard before, with her mom backing her up on acoustic guitar. 

The PA system was pretty fuzzy, so we couldn't quite make out what she was saying, and we all thought she was singing "She wears short skirts, I wear Tool shirts."  We figured it was a song this girl had actually written, and that, in addition to her plaintive acoustic song of longing, she was a big Tool fan.  It was pretty cool.  It blew my mind when I eventually heard the original version over the radio at my gym.  For a second, I thought maybe that girl I'd seen had become extremely famous in an extremely short window of time.
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Captain
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« Reply #232 on: Dec 08, 2010, 11:47:11 AM »

we all thought she was singing "She wears short skirts, I wear Tool shirts." 

Just wanted to say that this dichotomy resonates with me far better than the actual Swift version.

Yeah, I guess I don't have a problem with Taylor Swift.  I'm not trying to parse the particulars of her appeal just right now, but I probably wouldn't change it if she came on the radio.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #233 on: Dec 08, 2010, 11:57:41 AM »

For her teen fans, she's got 1) the standard pop-diva appeal, 2) a little shameless prurient gossip-rag appeal (ZOMG this song is totally about John Mayer!!!!!!1!!!), and 3) a squeaky-clean flyover-country-friendly image that means parents will happily buy her albums for their 12 year-olds instead of Gaga's.  A perfect storm, really, especially given the tightrope-walk required to have both 2) and 3).

For the Jody Rosens of the world, well, they're going to rep for anything this insanely popular on principle alone, but I guess there's also a certain emphasis, for better or worse, on songwriting that sets her apart from other pop starlets--her music is wordy and confessional, and that's always going to be more appealing to ex-indie-kids than a standard Matrix-produced 'banger. 

Also, I mean, just at its most basic level: are you going to side with Kanye West and John Mayer or with the cute plucky 19 year-old girl-with-a-guitar?  Sometimes not even hipster music critics are comfortable with giving a toast to the douchebags.
« Last Edit: Dec 08, 2010, 12:01:26 PM by dieblucasdie » Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
Andrew_TSKS
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« Reply #234 on: Dec 08, 2010, 12:12:24 PM »

Hey, by the way, she's not 19--she'll be 21 next Monday (thank you wikipedia).
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #235 on: Dec 08, 2010, 01:22:30 PM »

For the Jody Rosens of the world, well, they're going to rep for anything this insanely popular on principle alone, but I guess there's also a certain emphasis, for better or worse, on songwriting that sets her apart from other pop starlets--her music is wordy and confessional, and that's always going to be more appealing to ex-indie-kids than a standard Matrix-produced 'banger. 

Man this is not the critical conversation at all

What are we reading different blogs or something
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #236 on: Dec 08, 2010, 01:24:59 PM »

I mean most of the critics who rep for Taylor Swift that I've read were also really into the first Ashlee Simpson record (thinking Frank Kogan, Dave Moore, Tom Ewing, aka all the poptimists). "Matrix-produced banger" is pretty much what they're always looking for.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #237 on: Dec 08, 2010, 01:38:16 PM »

Right, sure, like I said, those sorts are going to like someone like Swift almost out of principle.  What I was searching for in that second part there is something that would make crotchety old rockists accept her, which is something that didn't happen with Fearless, but seems to be happening with Speak Now.
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he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
kyle
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« Reply #238 on: Dec 08, 2010, 04:32:51 PM »

Is anyone else in the "I don't care whether or not Taylor Swift deserves critical acclaim as well as popularity" camp? Cause guys, seriously, it really seems like a "...whatevs" moment for me.
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Ignatius
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« Reply #239 on: Dec 08, 2010, 04:43:29 PM »

NO! This is a moment for epd to express curiosity about an aspect of popular culture with which he has otherwise chosen to refrain from investigating so he can be like 'why don't I get this' and we scramble to explain and then he's like 'Oh just as I suspected, a bunch of banana mush. My innate skepticism of the zeitgeist has again served me well and kept me isolated from meaningless cultural products.'
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #240 on: Dec 08, 2010, 05:06:58 PM »

Actually this has less to do with my curiosity about her than it does with my curiosity about the critical reaction to her. I couldn't care less whether people are listening to this kind of pop music; I was just interested in why this particular purveyor of it had been elected as something apart from the rest.
« Last Edit: Dec 08, 2010, 05:08:41 PM by elpollodiablo » Logged

think 'on the road.'
Ignatius
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« Reply #241 on: Dec 08, 2010, 05:12:49 PM »

I'm also teasing! Otherwise I probably wouldn't have responded to your question in the first place.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #242 on: Dec 08, 2010, 05:13:47 PM »

No worries!
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think 'on the road.'
Ignatius
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« Reply #243 on: Dec 08, 2010, 05:19:43 PM »

It is fun to do exaggerations or 'sendups' based on our observations of other people's behaviors and tastes.
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Dick
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« Reply #244 on: Dec 08, 2010, 05:53:06 PM »

I've often dreamed that some day my friends and family might do a 'roast' of me!  I will lay out cheese logs and ritz crackers to keep the atmosphere a little classy, and everyone can take turns getting up and saying facts concerning my life that they pretend to be indignant about but secretly they love me because of it.  And I will sit in a rocking chair facing everyone and laugh a big generous laugh.
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Greg Nog
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« Reply #245 on: Dec 08, 2010, 06:26:03 PM »

"Dick loves the ladies... (pause for laughter)  LOVES the ladies.  You know, Dick, we know you like chasing TAIL, but that doesn't mean hitting on EVERY woman in town! (pause for laughter)  I mean, save some for the REST of us!  Jeez!"
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reebty
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« Reply #246 on: Dec 08, 2010, 11:39:55 PM »

I'd "exaggerate" by saying that what I would do here is briefly and insipidly discuss Taylor Swift's artistic merit and then offer a blunt critique of her aesthetics, but I wouldn't really be exaggerating because that's exactly what I was going to do.

Specifically, I would have said that while the fact that she writes her own music earns her more respect than I grant to Miley Cyrus, it also means I blame her entirely for her bland songwriting. Then I would have said that I don't find her attractive. I might have been more specific, but I'm told that's not nice and I'm trying to work on that. In any case, there's no denying that her looks are part of the package, so it's a relevant point. Hell, I think all music is part image; just a much bigger part in pop music. Of course many people think she's gorgeous and there's no doubt her looks are working for her and her fans don't give a flying fuck what I think.

My post is already longer than I thought it would be, so I might as well address the Kanye thing. Even if I found Taylor attractive and even if I hated black people, neither of things would factor into my judgment, because they're irrelevant. Well, hating black people probably would, because bigots don't tend to make exceptions to that kind of irrationality, but that's beside the point. The point is this: Girl gets her first mainstream music award with millions watching, guy shits all over her moment. I don't buy any pro Kanye or anti-Taylor spin on it.
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #247 on: Dec 09, 2010, 12:36:36 AM »

Yeah after that post I kind of don't give a flying fuck what you think, either. Sorry.
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think 'on the road.'
Dick
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« Reply #248 on: Dec 09, 2010, 12:59:03 AM »

Don't hate just cause reebty thinks Taylor Swift is busted plus also something about black people, pollo.
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Dick
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« Reply #249 on: Dec 09, 2010, 01:01:18 AM »

What I mean to say is this, some of my best friends are Kanye West.
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