You kids sure have strange ideas about drinking alcohol

[YojimboMonkey]

I've never gotten vinegar from Newcastle

Skunky I can believe since it comes in clear bottles.  But vinegary?

Not something I drink all the time but I have definitely had at least one Newcastle in 2011.  No PBRs.  Plenty of High Lifes though (also clear bottles :/ )

[FreddyKnuckles]

Hey jim, does it matter if a beer comes in a clear bottle if it also comes in a cardboard box?

[YojimboMonkey]

well yeah the cardboard box is going to block most of the light.  So in a box, or with proper handling, clear or even my hated green bottles are going to turn out OK.

BTW I am drinking Yuengling tonight out of green bottles.  Grabbed it 'cause I'd never had it and it was available at the gas station right near the chicken shack we got dinner at.  Not bad, and now I can say I've had it. 

BTW Bolton's Spicy Chicken & Fish in Nashville?  Pretty fucking good.  Went through 4 of these goddamn beers just eating the chicken, that shit is spicy.

[FreddyKnuckles]

I heard that multiple or extreme temperature changes can cause skunk?

[coldforge]

I heard that skunk was caused by bad karma from a previous life

[peacocks]

cf, there is no bad karma

[coldforge]

only bad actors?

[peacocks]

sure

[fishjim]

cf, there is no bad karma

yes there is - you spell it CAR-ma. i've had it.

OT: at a bar tonight, i got accosted by a buff guy in a New Belgium t-shirt offering shots of something he repeated several times was called "Black Ale." he said I could get a pint for $5. i said thanks, but this is gross.

[peacocks]

haha my mom makes that joke a lot.

[YojimboMonkey]

cf, there is no bad karma

yes there is - you spell it CAR-ma. i've had it.

OT: at a bar tonight, i got accosted by a buff guy in a New Belgium t-shirt offering shots of something he repeated several times was called "Black Ale." he said I could get a pint for $5. i said thanks, but this is gross.

If you are speaking of their 1554 "Enlightened" Black Ale, then <edited out snark> well I don't think "gross" is the word I would use to describe it anyway.  "Pretty good" comes to mind, as does "definitely drinkable."  "Possibly the best out of New Belgium's regularly-available 6-packs" lacks punch but comes closer to expressing my own personal opinion on the beer.  "Makes great chili" is another one but possibly not relevant at this moment.

I mean, I don't particularly have a dog in this fight, New Belgium makes good beers, New Belgium makes bad beers, New Belgium makes some seriously overrated beers and they make some great beers.  I like a lot of things about the brewery (re:sustainable practices, etc) but I'm not going to hate on anyone dogging them.  I don't understand why a muscle dude would be handing out shots of 1554 but it's possible you tried it under less than ideal circumstances.  Or it's possible you should stick to PBR.  Dammit that snark crept back in.  And here I'd decided to let pollo take over beer snob duties since he's clearly so much better at it than I am.  And he probably doesn't think New Belgium has a good enough pedigree anyway. 

[elpollodiablo]

I will say that Fat Tire is some *egregiously* overrated shit, but we've had that discussion already. The only other NB brew I've had is the 2° Below Ale, and it's pretty unremarkable as far as bitters go.

[YojimboMonkey]

Then again it could be said that the entire *point* of a bitter is to be unremarkable. 

[elpollodiablo]

Fuck no! A good ESB is remarkable for its balance, roundness of the flavor profile, etc. It's a style I like more and more.

[YojimboMonkey]

I see that NB's web site calls it a "winter warmer."  Anyway, when you say "bitter" I think Ordinary Bitter.  Much like a Mild Ale or a small beer, the point of an ordinary bitter is to be the ultimate session beer, something you can sit around and drink forever and it's not going to knock you over the head with either alcohol or flavor.  An ESB, though nominally in the same "family" of beers, is a different beast entirely.

[elpollodiablo]

I mean... not really, dude. The grain bill & hop profile are typically essentially the same as an Ordinary or Special, just with a bit more of a wallop. The flavor profile is very similar. A low-gravity ESB can be just a smidge mightier than a high gravity Ordinary. ESBs can still make for great session beers.

Anyway though, I can see what you mean in terms of the point of a bitter being "unremarkable" in that it's all about drinkability, but when I find a really well-rounded, drinkable beer with a perfect balance of malt & bitterness, I'm wont to remark upon it. Is all.

[YojimboMonkey]

An ESB is pretty different from an ordinary bitter.  They may use the same basic ingredients but as a brewer you should know that the same basic ingredients can lead to wildly differing results.  Different gravity boils extract hops differently.  A more active fermentation leads to higher levels of fruity esters.  Low levels of diacetyl are considered acceptable in an ESB, where they would not be present in an ordinary or premium bitter.  (The first ESB I ever remember having, Red Hook ESB, is practically nothing but diacetyl.)  More malt, and the addition of some secondary malts, leads to a nuttier flavor and a fuller body.  The fuller body causes other flavors to be experienced differently than in the lighter-bodied bitters.  The higher level of alcohol contributes its own flavor.  Still "sessionable" yes, but not in the same sense that an ordinary bitter or a mild ale would be.  I don't think we need to bump dicks over this man.

[elpollodiablo]

I mean, all of that's certainly true but it's also true that I could make a 3.8% Ordinary and a 4.6% ESB with the same exact ingredients, a little larger on the grain bill and a little heavier on the hops and get *very* similar beers that would be almost equally sessionable and within the style guidelines for each.

[elpollodiablo]

I could make a 3.8% Ordinary and a 4.6% ESB with the same exact ingredients,

Also this sounds like a pretty good idea, now that I think about it.

[YojimboMonkey]

But you'd be more likely to make a big beer, like something toward the higher end of your ESB range, or a big IPA, or something even bigger, and then use your second runnings to make your ordinary bitter.  So you would essentially have exactly the same malts going into each beer but the two beers would be worlds apart.

[elpollodiablo]

I think "worlds apart" is certainly overstating things, but yeah, sure. Now that my buddy's got a 50 quart cooler mash tun, I'd love to try exactly that.

[davy]

If you are speaking of their 1554 "Enlightened" Black Ale, "Possibly the best out of New Belgium's regularly-available 6-packs" l

Word.

[coldforge]

Damn Jim, you got pretty exercised over a dude not liking a beer that you're probably not crazy about

[YojimboMonkey]

I guess I'm spoiling for a rumble

[YojimboMonkey]

oh man the phrase "spoiling for a rumble" burbled up out of some la brea in the back of my mind & I knew immediately it came from this, ahahahaha so great