If your boss is an S.O.B tell him to S.H.O.V.E the J.O.B - new job thrad

[Greg Nog]

That is, if a start date of 2/21 is implicit or explicit and unnoticed in my original job offer, then what degree of substantiality, as a speech act, does my accepting the job have in establishing all the terms of the offer, even if part of the dialogue of my acceptance specifically overrides that particular proviso? And what are the real-world obligations and entailments stemming from this agreement?

Pretty much none; those people are flaky as balls!

[fishjim]

That is, if a start date of 2/21 is implicit or explicit and unnoticed in my original job offer, then what degree of substantiality, as a speech act, does my accepting the job have in establishing all the terms of the offer, even if part of the dialogue of my acceptance specifically overrides that particular proviso? And what are the real-world obligations and entailments stemming from this agreement?

Pretty much none; those people are flaky as balls!

I'm with Nog. I'd even say that if there's any time when an employee has power over an employer, it's in this liminal stage after accepting a job offer, but before starting work.

In my experience, it's expected (if not encouraged) that someone taking a new job will take a few weeks or even a month or two before starting the new gig.

None of this is to say I wouldn't have panicked in the same situation.

[coldforge]

No, I know. The facts of this case are settled and we're all on the same page. My musings were more, y'know, philosophical-like in nature.

[Nick Ink]

Everyone writes everything down here in Russia, I've noticed. Very mistrustful of spoken interaction.

Moreover, congratubloominglations Zach, and commisefuckingrations, Fred.

[Good Intentions]

That is, if a start date of 2/21 is implicit or explicit and unnoticed in my original job offer, then what degree of substantiality, as a speech act, does my accepting the job have in establishing all the terms of the offer, even if part of the dialogue of my acceptance specifically overrides that particular proviso? And what are the real-world obligations and entailments stemming from this agreement? One begins to understand the famous distrust of words supposedly held by rustic peoples everywhere.

If you're really interested in the scope and significance of conventions, there is a work of genius on this topic: Conventions by David Lewis.

The issue you describe is more about the scope of assent than conventions, though. (What is entailed by agreeing or assenting to something - to you also agree to all of its entailments? Almost certainly not. So what are the appropriate closure principles? It's a mammoth field of research in epistemology and practical reasoning more generally.) No convention can be said to exist if a certain expectation gets built up (through your email exchange, for instance) which then gets frustrated by later activity, since conventions exactly are structures of expectations. If the expectations don't survive, the convention doesn't.

[Nick Ink]

I got offered the chance to come back to Moscow on my own and run the final third of this course tonight. It's a great opportunity, just slightly marred by the facts that a) we are on non-speaking terms with the local school owners with which we've been partners for the first two-thirds of this course (and the previous 10 years' worth of courses!), b) I need a bit of orientation with the paperwork/the Cambridge side of things, and c) I haven't really had the greatest time here the two times I've visited.

I think b) and c) can be easily overcome (it won't be minus-30 next time for one thing, and I'll insist on a couple of meetings to sort out what I need to know), but a) is a bit more irksome.

 I know these people are playing a constant game of brinkmanship with regard to all manner of little and less little details (one example - when we arrive after a 4+hour flight etc. they never have the right money for the hotel, or they take us to a crap alternative hotel - it's a passive(ish)-aggresisve protest because they would rather they were paying for one tutor than two), but I'm not that into confrontation, and I just hate the thought of two weeks of that kind of bullshit.

There's also a constant underwhiff of threat about this place - I haven't even told you guys about my encounter with a 20-stone, super-ominous, fidgety-hands-in-pockets guy at a cheap bar last night that squinted at me and kept repeating 'Russian Police' for about a minute. There's a definite vibe. Or maybe it's just the bar I go to.

On the other hand, I know I can do it, feather-in-the-cap factor, and more money. I think I'm going to give it a whirl.

[Em]

Congrats Nick! Sounds like a good call.

Hey somebody decide for me: I get to choose between 1) Continuing to share an office with two lovely ladies whose company I enjoy but who often distract me. The office is also very cluttered, and because of the nature of one of the work one of the ladies does, there are often people unrelated to my work coming into this rather small office and staying and talking for long periods of time. It doesn't bother me that much because I'm a good multitasker, but still. The office is downstairs and in close proximity to my (sometimes very irritating, sometimes very entertaining) bosses, whose feedback I frequently need; and

2) Getting my very own office upstairs, where only a couple of other people that I don't really know work (and with whom I would never interact). I would either have to come up with a more efficient system for getting my bosses to do timely edits on my work or develop really strong leg muscles from climbing up and down the stairs so much. It would be much less social, as there are several other people downstairs that I talk to on a regular basis, but I think I might get more done and be less stressed out. Also, there is a very nice scanner in that room and I have been dying to start digitizing my correspondence as it comes in as there is no more room for paper files. Plus, I'd be allowed to bring one of my dogs whenever I wanted and play whatever music I want.

So: social and fun but kinda hectic and more stressful than necessary or probably lonely but possibly more efficient (and is there inherent value in having your own space? maybe).

[Greg Nog]

Man, I would go for my own office if I had to scale a greased wall to reach it.

[jm]

What Greg said.  And I'm likely not nearly as secretly thrilled about the challenge of having to scale a greased wall as Greg probably is.

[Greg Nog]

I'm gonna be honest, the greased wall is like 80 percent of why I took this job

[Em]

Yeah, I was kinda leaning toward my own office, it's just gonna be a big change. A good one though.

[heather marie]

so, this happened:

- I demoted myself
- got a significant pay cut due to said demotion
- got my hours cut down to part-time
- almost told my boss to go fuck herself
- almost walked out of a job
- have filled out a bunch of random applications for an assortment of places
- am hoping that I will find a new job within 2 weeks

[G.C.R]

Yipes, do you mean you actually demoted yourself or do did something terrible/badass to get demoted? Also good luck with the applications!

[heather marie]

I demoted myself. I lovelovelove my job and my clients, but have an issue with the people I do it for. I've been feeling way too miserable/overwhelmed/depressed lately so I knew something had to change. I knew it'd come with a pay cut but I didn't realize it'd be so low. kinda shows how valuable they feel I am.

[dumbfish]

Wow. Here's hoping another firm nearby does similar work without being assholic.

[coldforge]

man oh man my boss took me out to lunch for my last day

there was a lot of wine involved

[jebreject]

So, uh, I just got a job offer from the place I interviewed with like six months ago.

[jebreject]

I have a lot of thinking to do.

[peacocks]

from what you've posted about your current job I would take the offer!

[jebreject]

I go back and forth with this place though, it's not always so bad, and we're kind of on an upswing right now. Also, this job that I was just offered would mean a pretty significant paycut--like several dollars an hour, and man, that really adds up. I think I'm going to ask about the benefits package and things like that, and see if there are other places I'd be saving money so that the wage cut isn't quite as painful. It's an environment I really want to work in, and it's a great company, but it's hard weighing that against several hundred dollars a month. (It's also where M works, and two of my bandmates, both being marks in both the PRO and CON column.)

LPTJ, help me make this decision.

[elpollodiablo]

I dunno man, several hundred dollars a month seems like a hell of a sacrifice to make if you're not absolutely miserable where you are. Unless the other place is like a dream position, or a stepping stone to something greater, far closer to home, etc. Seems like there would have to be some major material offset to justify completely overhauling your budget.

[The_Tourist]

i think the first thing i would do is tell them "It's an environment I really want to work in, and it's a great company, but it's hard weighing that against several hundred dollars a month." and see if there's anything they can do.

i know nothing about the company or the type of position, but unless it's union or government, they might be able to work with you on the pay rate.

[DCDave]

I am in the process of probably winding down at my current job. I just went into my boss' office and told him that I think I'm done here and that the vision of the company and the vision of the company as it was explained to me when I was hired are two different things. I need to figure out where I can go to work next, which is going to be tough and causing me more than a little bit of anxiety at this point.

Fuck.

[jebreject]

edit: moved to ungoogleable place

[jebreject]

Dave, that sounds really tough! Do you have any options jumping out at you, or is it going to be kind of a mess while you try to sort everything out and search for a new employer?