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657247 Posts in 9253 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 74 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: new piece up: "ivories"  (Read 5264 times)
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John
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« on: Sep 08, 2011, 11:06:56 AM »

I don't always view poetry as self-expression but I mean this one from the very bottom of my heart

http://www.lastplanetojakarta.com/2011/09/ivories.html
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jebreject
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 10, 2011, 03:18:41 PM »

This is great, I enjoyed it very much! I have no real stake in the digital vs. real piano game, but I can definitely get behind the sentiment.
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I'm not racist, I've got lots of black Facebook friends.
mixed cats
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 10, 2011, 03:40:28 PM »

Those bands employ entire orchestras, huge choirs, and/or hire Christopher Lee to do voiceovers, so you'd think they'd be able to splurge on recording an actual piano.
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call me, and we'll sit down and work it out
over pancakes and orange juices
Good Intentions
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 10, 2011, 05:36:05 PM »

The last power metal band I saw in person, Keep of Kalessin, had a group of 6 men (all tall, dressed in jeans and a plain black t-shirt, and with long, straight, blonde hair) come on stage for the closing song, all of them stood bolt upright and acted as a backing choir at the final moment. It's not a Steinway on stage, but a charming touch of theatrics going above and beyond what's expected of a band opening for someone else.
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John
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« Reply #4 on: Sep 11, 2011, 10:48:14 AM »

I have to allow for the possibility that what sounds to me like a Korg Triton is actually just a badly recorded grand in some of these cases
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #5 on: Sep 11, 2011, 02:38:56 PM »

Thing learned from my music tech classes: recording a grand is really damn complicated. I do like the hard attack sound with mic right over the strings for rock music, though the tone isn't very pure. Don't know how that would work for metal, as it's probably not suited for any other genre outside of ragtime.
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triple paisley minimum
Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #6 on: Sep 13, 2011, 05:24:32 AM »

feeling this as an argument for a specific kind of authenticity, in which only a few people are ever going to hear this, but they are going to feel it in their hearts, they are going to know when you half-assed this section or that, so you might as well go as deep as possible and return with something ideologically pure or at least made of crystal
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2011, 05:26:08 AM by Black Amnesia of Heaven » Logged

alex
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« Reply #7 on: Sep 13, 2011, 06:37:02 AM »

I didn't really read this as an argument about authenticity at all - more as "yo, this sounds crappy".
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #8 on: Sep 13, 2011, 06:49:10 AM »

eh don't trust anything i think at 2 am
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #9 on: Sep 13, 2011, 06:56:02 AM »

but i don't know, seeing as we're preferring an actual instrument to its substitutions and disguised versions, and this is also catering to the refined senses of a small audience, and also how the use of this specific instrument is completely instrumental in the overall grandeur and majesty of the work, hallmarks of the genre... it kind of reads like authenticity to me, but a good kind, one where you can feel proud that they nailed that sound, accessed that feeling that you sought.
« Last Edit: Sep 13, 2011, 06:58:57 AM by Black Amnesia of Heaven » Logged

John
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« Reply #10 on: Sep 22, 2011, 04:33:43 PM »

it's not about authenticity at all fwiw I don't really care about authenticity

there isn't a digital piano on the planet that sounds as good as a Yamaha C5 no matter what you do with it, and a Yamaha C5 isn't even the 10th best piano you can play

this is about not playing the Squire you bought off the rack at Target just because it's more convenient than keeping your Les Paul in decent repair
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clare
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« Reply #11 on: Sep 22, 2011, 08:15:15 PM »

Laziness is certainly what shits me about autotune. If you can't sing in tune, don't. Or live with that fact. Or learn to. Autotune for its own sake, on the other hand is fine, yeah it's a novelty sound, but it's not about covering up a deficiency. I'm less certain when it comes to keyboards, as they're not my bag, but again, if it's about sound and actually being interested in the instruments, then yes.
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #12 on: Sep 23, 2011, 12:09:52 AM »

i have a really generous definition of "authenticity" when i have not slept

anyway power metal sounds really fucking cool when riding on the full deep graven tones of a real damn piano A+ yes
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Black Amnesia of Heaven
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« Reply #13 on: Sep 23, 2011, 12:12:16 AM »

i'm totally cool with autotune though because i see it as an aesthetic (even when it's making up for a lack), albeit one that may not be fashionable for too long

unless we're talking about autotune in power metal because for some reason that would kind of bug me
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jebreject
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« Reply #14 on: Sep 23, 2011, 02:07:21 PM »

i'm totally cool with autotune though because i see it as an aesthetic (even when it's making up for a lack), albeit one that may not be fashionable for too long

I agree with this.

Quote
unless we're talking about autotune in power metal because for some reason that would kind of bug me

And this.

I mean, autotuning a pop star's voice seems par for the course. I don't really see that as somehow diminishing the work or even the perfromance. It's just part of how things are done.
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jm
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 23, 2011, 02:45:47 PM »

there isn't a digital piano on the planet that sounds as good as a Yamaha C5 no matter what you do with it, and a Yamaha C5 isn't even the 10th best piano you can play

This.
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His hand is holding my hands, which are rested on his knee.
RoyBiggins
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 12, 2011, 04:45:58 PM »

I loved this post, BTW.

I kept thinking though: when you talk about these things, you are talkin' about your Korgs and Kurtzweils playing their native sounds. 

My buddy Dan made a record this year where he played MIDI keys, and they ran the signal through a patch that was a grand piano sampled from Abbey Road studios--the Abbey Road instrument pack that this studio had was apparently an insanely expensive one.  To MY ears, it ain't even different.  It sounds like a real piano.

What do you guys think of that? 'Cause it weirded me out.
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Good Intentions
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 12, 2011, 08:31:52 PM »

It wouldn't sound the same because MIDI doesn't allow variations in the sound of the attack.
A soft press of a piano key does not sound like a hard press with the volume turned down. It would also not do a good job of handling the sounds produced by the pedals.
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jm
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 12, 2011, 08:36:24 PM »

It wouldn't sound the same because MIDI doesn't allow variations in the sound of the attack.
A soft press of a piano key does not sound like a hard press with the volume turned down. It would also not do a good job of handling the sounds produced by the pedals.

Though some sample sets do have different samples for different velocity notes. I mean, it's still graduated in much larger increments (considering there is essentially an infinite number of velocities you can get with a hammer-and-string piano), so ultimately you're right.

And even the pedal stuff is something you can manipulate with effects.

I guess my point is that MIDI that uses samples, depending on where it sits in the mix, can be much more convincing than any fakeass piano sound on a keyboard.
« Last Edit: Oct 12, 2011, 08:54:53 PM by jm » Logged

His hand is holding my hands, which are rested on his knee.
Good Intentions
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 12, 2011, 08:56:05 PM »

MIDI is just one type of digitised sound, so not too much should be placed on that, but what MIDI sounds like is MIDI. It's sound is crisp, clipped and dynamically flat, even if you have a sufficiently well-rounded patch running like what our man Biggens describes, which would at least give it a bit of timbre.

I happen to quite like the sound of MIDI in places - I've spent too many hours listening to the awesome Transport Tycoon soundtrack to feel otherwise - but digitised sound =/= mechanically produced sound, for a hundred different reasons. Pianos change their sound depending on the moisture in the air, if it's an upright the features of the wall it stands against matters, the strings reverberate with each other while the pedal is up, the age of the strings matters, etc. etc. Individually these features are too small for most anybody to pick out, especially if you're not listening out for them, but their combination is why you can sensibly talk about something sounding organic. Real instruments sound organic, and a digitised sound would have to be a hell of a lot more complex than MIDI to do so.
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Thermofusion
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« Reply #20 on: Oct 12, 2011, 09:15:27 PM »

MIDI is just one type of digitised sound, so not too much should be placed on that, but what MIDI sounds like is MIDI. It's sound is crisp, clipped and dynamically flat, even if you have a sufficiently well-rounded patch running like what our man Biggens describes, which would at least give it a bit of timbre.

MIDI isn't a sound.
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triple paisley minimum
jm
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« Reply #21 on: Oct 12, 2011, 09:27:47 PM »

digitised sound =/= mechanically produced sound, for a hundred different reasons. Pianos change their sound depending on the moisture in the air, if it's an upright the features of the wall it stands against matters, the strings reverberate with each other while the pedal is up, the age of the strings matters, etc. etc. Individually these features are too small for most anybody to pick out, especially if you're not listening out for them, but their combination is why you can sensibly talk about something sounding organic. Real instruments sound organic, and a digitised sound would have to be a hell of a lot more complex than MIDI to do so.

I mean, dude, I know this shit.  I have, you know, been playing live instruments for nearly all my life and composing in MIDI et al. for at least half of it.
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His hand is holding my hands, which are rested on his knee.
jm
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« Reply #22 on: Oct 12, 2011, 09:31:33 PM »

I'll cop to being deficient in probably every single other area that you know a lot about, but geez.
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His hand is holding my hands, which are rested on his knee.
Good Intentions
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« Reply #23 on: Oct 12, 2011, 10:33:08 PM »

jm: I wasn't responding to you, sorry. I was elaborating on my earlier point, and I don't disagree with you. I could have made that clearer, sorry.

Thermo: MIDI sound then.
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jm
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« Reply #24 on: Oct 12, 2011, 10:44:28 PM »

 Much Love!
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