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657250 Posts in 9253 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 90 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: spoilery breaking bad thread: NOW WITH MORE SPOILERS  (Read 29237 times)
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jm
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« Reply #400 on: Sep 03, 2012, 10:43:24 PM »

I don't know that Walt being Out really works for the show thematically either.

there has to be something significant about the prognosis at this point. The last time, there was no definitive answer, and this time, we were just shown that he was being tested.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #401 on: Sep 04, 2012, 08:06:09 AM »

(If anything for the fact that if Walt is truly Out, then all Hank has is a piece of circumstancial evidence. I doubt he could dig up enough on ol' W.W. to build any sort of case.)

Yeah, I didn't see it as a Keyser Soze-type revelation, just the first time Hank has thought, "Huh, wait, what if WW is Walter." And I think part of the tension of the last 8 is going to be the fact that, while it's going to be tough for him to find actual evidence, once he starts poking around in Walt's life, there are a whole host of little lies that are going to start to unravel. First he'll find out Skylar's not really going to therapy, then he'll find out Walt paid cash for Jr.'s car, etc etc. I think it will take the whole 8, or close to it, and the thing is going to be that Jesse or Walt's own family is going to be the Final Boss, as the DEA is closing in.

Also who knows if he was really out or not. My instinct is not to trust a word he says to anyone at this point, but it could be true.

Also, re: the full year between now and the cold-open in the premiere. I have to assume there's going to be some sort of time-jump, either between this episode and next "season" or while Walt goes on the lam or something. It'd be kinda weird if the last 8 episodes take up the same amount of time as the series up to this point.
« Last Edit: Sep 04, 2012, 08:08:02 AM by dieblucasdie » Logged

he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
Greg Nog
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« Reply #402 on: Sep 04, 2012, 11:31:56 AM »

That would be kind of rad, I think!

I loved last night's episode; it was maybe my favorite of the whole series, actually.  The long, static wide shots with the diagonal room-layouts and barely-moving handheld cameras were totally captivating to me.  I may end up watching it again, just because of how beautiful the whole thing was.
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dieblucasdie
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« Reply #403 on: Sep 04, 2012, 11:50:21 AM »

Also, yeah, I definitely thought the baby was going to drown in the pool.
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he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
dieblucasdie
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« Reply #404 on: Sep 04, 2012, 12:00:02 PM »

That would be kind of rad, I think!

I loved last night's episode; it was maybe my favorite of the whole series, actually.  The long, static wide shots with the diagonal room-layouts and barely-moving handheld cameras were totally captivating to me.  I may end up watching it again, just because of how beautiful the whole thing was.

Relevant to LPTJ's interests: Apparently, with BB's production finished, Game of Thrones snatched up Michelle MacLaren, who's a longtime producer on the show, and directed that last episode with the great cold open, as well as some really awesome previous episodes ("One Minute," "Salud," maybe my favorite of the entire series, "4 Days Out," and a bunch more). Yessss.

This one was her, too!
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he was basically your only chance at making the world love you.
Greg Nog
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« Reply #405 on: Sep 04, 2012, 12:57:12 PM »

Ah!  Neat!  I saw that the episode was both written and directed by women, and idly wondered about the gender breakdown of the show's creative people, but forgot to look into what else they'd done.
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Nick
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Posts: 195


« Reply #406 on: Sep 04, 2012, 01:00:04 PM »

I'll start by saying that I find it extremely unlikely that Walt was lying to Skyler about getting out. It would just undermine what seemed to be the core theme of the episode: the "lonely at the top" ennui that comes from having accomplished one's goals and having to continue going through the motions while plateaued. The show went to great lengths in the second half of the episode to characterize Walt in these terms: Hank's speech about wishing he had enjoyed past jobs more prompting Walt to say that he used to like going camping (presumably referring to he and Jesse's RV cooking trips); the shot of a clearly miserable Walt in the shower in the middle of an otherwise beautiful cooking montage; the conversation with Jesse in which the two reminisce over their now-gone "glory days" and Walt extends a monetary olive branch; the shot of the dented paper towel dispenser in the hospital bathroom reminding Walt of a time when, even if he wasn't necessarily happy, he at least felt alive (no pun intended regarding the remission diagnosis) compared to the grinding monotony of a life with little challenge or possibility of further upward mobility (the cancer may or may not be back, its unclear, but I think the scene works thematically within the episode either way). Being a meth kingpin has become a regular, boring job to Walt, and I doubt the show would expend so much effort hammering this point home if it's only a red herring.

I think the most likely scenario is that Walt tells Skyler that he's out as soon as he decides that he wants to get out, but before he undergoes the process of actually doing so. My guess is that the early parts of Season 5B will involve him breaking the news to Todd/Declan/Lydia and having to deal with the consequences. This would also be a logical way for the machine gun from the premiere's cold open to come into play.

I don't know that Walt being Out really works for the show thematically either. The entire premise is turning him into a monster, and while he's done some truly monsterous things -- the prison stabbings were horrifying and disturbing -- I think it'd be a misstep to try to get us back on his side. He's fallen pretty far, but has he hit bottom? Has he crossed the rubicon? If this show is about turning Mr. Chips into Scarface, well, I'm not quite sure we're actually there yet. Walt saying he's done kind of undoes a lot of what this season built, and a bit of a cop-out as they move us into the end game.
I agree with this, which is why I found the episode somewhat disappointing, even though I still enjoyed it. Not only do I think that Walt quitting the meth game weakens the show thematically, the development also feels wholly unearned. The show had been handling Walt's shift into an evil drug kingpin at an excruciatingly slow pace (excruciating in a good way - this show has always traded in tension and discomfort to great effect), and suddenly he reverses field over the course of about 20 minutes of screen time, with the bulk of his change of heart coming in the form of one 2 minute montage. If they were going to go this route, Walt's growing discontentment with his new lifestyle should have been gradually introduced over the course of a few episodes. At the very least, they should have split this episode into two - one more closely focusing on the prison assassinations (a development that also felt rushed to me) and Lydia business, and one focusing on Walt realizing that being the boss isn't all it's cracked up to be.

But I'll be an optimist here and argue that it's not all bad.  For one, the irony of Walt's life crumbling around him right after he decides to change his ways is rich, and has the potential to make his eventual downfall much more tragic than it otherwise would have been. Also, while this may not jive with many people's real life moral views, rarely has the show treated the production of methamphetamine as an inherently evil deed; it's been the collateral damage and, erm, occupational hazards that have marked the major signposts along Walt's road to damnation. Walt is portrayed as a very sympathetic character in the show's early goings, despite the fact that he is cooking meth from episode one. All of this is to say that him quitting his day job may not represent the setback in Walt's moral decline that we fear, especially given that his decision to quit is born not out of guilt or regret but out of boredom. There's still plenty of opportunity for Walt to do things that make him even more reprehensible than we have yet seen him - the possibility that he may end up "having to" kill Hank is a good example. And lastly, Walt has quit the business before (at the beginning of season 3, and maybe one other time that I'm forgetting) and came back with a vengeance, so he might just end up getting pulled back in Godfather 3 style.
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jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #407 on: Sep 04, 2012, 01:30:04 PM »

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/09/the-blue-murder-filled-godfather-inspired-breaking-bad-finale/261890/
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C of heartbreak
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« Reply #408 on: Sep 24, 2012, 02:31:14 AM »

Just finished watching this last season. I have to say, for me each season is twice as good as the previous one. I do think Walt is out. I thought it was totally wack when they hid the whole convoluted lilly of the valley thing, and I really hope they're not pulling something similar with Walt leaving the business. There's a whole lot they can do already with where the show's gone this season.

Not sure how much I buy Walt's transformation from season 4 to 5. Certainly, I can see why he's gotten more power-hungry and reckless. But while at the end of season 4 I thought he was still pretty ambiguous, if highly unlikable, in season 5 he seems to have hit near comic book villan style evil, complete with gravely demonic voice. The scenes between him and Skyler were downright creepy.

I've got a question for everyone: I think it's pretty clear that Walt has broken bad at this point, even if he's no longer trying to go any deeper. At what point do you think he went bad? Or, at what point did he become unlikable enough that you no longer considered him a protagonist? Or do you still like him somewhat?
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HOW WOULD I BE? WHAT WOULD I DO?
Little Sixes Little Nines
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« Reply #409 on: Sep 24, 2012, 03:15:49 AM »

Jane's death
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jebreject
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« Reply #410 on: Sep 24, 2012, 12:06:21 PM »

Jane's death

Absolutely. Though I was discussing this with M recently and she doesn't think that he did anything wrong by letting Jane die! I was all like, WHAT!?
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Greg Nog
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« Reply #411 on: Sep 24, 2012, 12:56:24 PM »

I agree!  Jane was awful!
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elpollodiablo
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« Reply #412 on: Sep 24, 2012, 01:48:41 PM »

Walt himself points to that moment as when he passed the rubicon of his redeemability.
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think 'on the road.'
RoyBiggins
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« Reply #413 on: Sep 24, 2012, 02:26:15 PM »

Noting "crossing the rubicon of redeemability" for inclusion in future songwriting. Just an FYI.
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