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657250 Posts in 9253 Topics by 3396 Members Latest Member: - vlozan86 Most online today: 72 - most online ever: 494 (Jul 01, 2007, 02:59:53 PM)
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Author Topic: I'm 2nd fattest: new HEALTH and FITNESS  (Read 26030 times)
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elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #50 on: Mar 03, 2012, 08:44:31 PM »

It asked me for all of that. The machines at the university rec center are like Doc Brown's DeLorean
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think 'on the road.'
milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #51 on: Mar 03, 2012, 08:46:11 PM »

I used to spend an hour on an ellipiitcal at the Y and the LED would say I was burning 900-1000 cals but then I bought a bodybugg and wore it I was very surprised to find that according to it, I was burning like 400...450. Bodybuggs are supposedly 90% correct on calorie burnin business. I was very sad because I had been ellipticaling for several months and I was doing half of what I thought I was doing.
It's like when you break up with a girlfriend who only loved you HALF as much as you thought, and then took the dog when she moved out.
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elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #52 on: Mar 03, 2012, 08:48:34 PM »

Whoa, that Bodybugg thing is serious. I use this bike computer app, but it doesn't even have a trap.
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think 'on the road.'
milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #53 on: Mar 03, 2012, 09:05:25 PM »

Those things are MONEY when it comes to seeing what you're burning during exercises.
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FreddyKnuckles
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Posts: 11705


« Reply #54 on: Mar 03, 2012, 09:10:50 PM »

I'm not a big elliptical fan.  I think you're honestly best off switching between run/walk on a treadmill.  Run as far as you can, even if it's just a quarter mile, and then walk a while.  Just walk/jog/walk/jog as much as you can for 40 minutes.  you should be worn out at the end of it or it wasn't worth it.  your weight loss, heart/lungs/muscle benefits will be significantly greater if you spend even a half an hour switching between jogging and walking than spending an hour on the elliptical.  
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Quote from: Heathcote
I'm in with Greg Nog, IT'S FUCKING FAFFLE TIME!
elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #55 on: Mar 03, 2012, 09:20:19 PM »

What's the reasoning behind that?
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think 'on the road.'
FreddyKnuckles
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Posts: 11705


« Reply #56 on: Mar 03, 2012, 09:27:00 PM »

An elliptical is designed to reduce resistance and reduce the effects of gravity.  Resistance is what you need.

If you're capable of a little running, you should do that.  I would only recommend an elliptical if you are missing knee ligaments or something.   
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Quote from: Heathcote
I'm in with Greg Nog, IT'S FUCKING FAFFLE TIME!
jess
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Posts: 3571


« Reply #57 on: Mar 03, 2012, 09:37:17 PM »

Except running sucks for lots of people's knees, not just the extremely impaired, especially if you aren't using good running form which apparently most people don't (so say the trainers I know). That said, I actually injured my knee from intensive elliptical use once, so if you are extremely knee-injury prone, even using an elliptical won't always safeguard you...
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FreddyKnuckles
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« Reply #58 on: Mar 03, 2012, 09:58:28 PM »

Run till it hurts.  walk till you feel better. then run till it hurts again.  you will SHED pounds. FYI a lot of trainers are idiots.  If weight loss is your main goal, a little weightlifting here and there is important but you really cannot beat running.  I've seen trainers advising weighted oblique work for women.  What? You're just going to build a bunch of weird muscle underneath your lovehandles and push them out further, making you wider. Do some solid core work, but use common sense.  If you want to burn fat, you can either run for 25 minutes or hit the elliptical or bike for over an hour. 
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Quote from: Heathcote
I'm in with Greg Nog, IT'S FUCKING FAFFLE TIME!
elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #59 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:00:41 PM »

Hm. Interesting! I'm trying to incorporate more cardio as part of an overall approach to improving my health, but losing some weight is definitely part of that. Maybe I'll see how much straight running I can take next time.
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think 'on the road.'
C of heartbreak
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« Reply #60 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:06:36 PM »

Man, there are so many things I need to know about running. I used to run all the time because I loved it, but I've been out of the game for a while. I've been doing two miles every, with 1/4 mile walk in the middle and running the rest of the way (though I feel so out of shape that my "run" might be no more than a really intense jog). I wanted to stretch it to three miles today, but my joints were just killing me. I hope that's just a thing that goes away.

I've got a dinky little elliptical at home that I use when it's raining or too cold to go to the park. Height definitely makes it uncomfortable, and I'm only average height for a dude. But the resistance on it is variable, so I don't see why lack of resistance is a problem, especially seeing as I usually don't set it for any more than half strength. Also, after doing the elliptical, I feel like I've worked a lot more of my leg muscles than I do when running. I like running, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's superiority isn't just a fitness freak myth, nor am I convinced of the accuracy of these calorie counters.

How fast do you guys run, and how long do you spend at that speed? It it worth running full speed even if you're heaving in and out through your mouth, or should you only go as fast as your lungs will let you?
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HOW WOULD I BE? WHAT WOULD I DO?
FreddyKnuckles
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Posts: 11705


« Reply #61 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:29:55 PM »

It's all math brother.  if you move a 200lb body 3 miles, you will need to expend a certain amount of energy (calories) doing it. Walking burns less than running because when you run, you also go up a little bit against the resistance of gravity. An elliptical completely takes gravity out of the equation.  But gravity has an effect even on walking, as your weight is a combination of the effect of gravity and mass.  The purpose of the elliptical is to take gravity as much out of the equation as possible. Essentially you're just flailing your arms and legs, instead of moving weight from one place to another. 
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Quote from: Heathcote
I'm in with Greg Nog, IT'S FUCKING FAFFLE TIME!
jebreject
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Posts: 27071


« Reply #62 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:33:59 PM »

I'm going to go back to the gym tomorrow after a week off but I'm still not really sure what I'm going to do, given that my achilles is still kinda fucked up.
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elpollodiablo
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Posts: 32624


« Reply #63 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:34:59 PM »

But you're making it sound like there's almost no effect, which isn't nearly true--the difference is a calorie expenditure of 20-30% or so, according to the internets.

xpost
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think 'on the road.'
FreddyKnuckles
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« Reply #64 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:42:50 PM »

There's an effect to the elliptical, but you gotta spend a lotta fucking time on the thing.  Your time is much better spent switching between running an walking.  You'd have to spend 5 hrs a week on the elliptical vs 2.5-3 hrs of run/walk.  The best part is slowly watching your fitness increase, as you can increase the running an decrease the walking.  Then increase the speed over time.  Reduce your calorie intake, hit the treadmill.  You WILL shed fat. 
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Quote from: Heathcote
I'm in with Greg Nog, IT'S FUCKING FAFFLE TIME!
milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #65 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:49:54 PM »

Run till it hurts.  walk till you feel better. then run till it hurts again.  you will SHED pounds. FYI a lot of trainers are idiots.  If weight loss is your main goal, a little weightlifting here and there is important but you really cannot beat running.  I've seen trainers advising weighted oblique work for women.  What? You're just going to build a bunch of weird muscle underneath your lovehandles and push them out further, making you wider. Do some solid core work, but use common sense.  If you want to burn fat, you can either run for 25 minutes or hit the elliptical or bike for over an hour. 

Yes to all this shit. And if you restrict your diet, you're gonna be a calorie burning machine. diet is like 80% especially when you hit a plateau
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C of heartbreak
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Posts: 5285


« Reply #66 on: Mar 03, 2012, 10:57:17 PM »

It's all math brother.  if you move a 200lb body 3 miles, you will need to expend a certain amount of energy (calories) doing it. Walking burns less than running because when you run, you also go up a little bit against the resistance of gravity. An elliptical completely takes gravity out of the equation.  But gravity has an effect even on walking, as your weight is a combination of the effect of gravity and mass.  The purpose of the elliptical is to take gravity as much out of the equation as possible. Essentially you're just flailing your arms and legs, instead of moving weight from one place to another. 

But, I'm not sure how true that is. Work against gravity only counts when you move up and down, and in fact, much of the up and down motion is absorbed by your bones and joints, which stresses your body rather than working your muscles. An elliptical uses friction as resistance, and nearly all of the work is done by your muscles. I like running and will probably continue to do so, but I'm starting to feel like it's sort of a wash between running and elliptical, and I think the elliptical is probably better for people who have bad joint pain or aren't in good shape.
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HOW WOULD I BE? WHAT WOULD I DO?
C of heartbreak
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« Reply #67 on: Mar 03, 2012, 11:03:55 PM »

Speaking of joints, dude at work told me Costco sells glucosamine tablets for cheap. Anyone try glucosamine? Does it work?
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HOW WOULD I BE? WHAT WOULD I DO?
milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #68 on: Mar 03, 2012, 11:04:50 PM »

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/02/01/MNFC1BID8F.DTL

Neat article about runnin benefits, for more distance.
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milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #69 on: Mar 03, 2012, 11:06:29 PM »

Speaking of joints, dude at work told me Costco sells glucosamine tablets for cheap. Anyone try glucosamine? Does it work?

I bought some "joint juice" which has that in it, but I never noticed a diff.
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Bernard
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Posts: 9845


« Reply #70 on: Mar 04, 2012, 01:29:02 AM »

Run till it hurts.  walk till you feel better. then run till it hurts again.  you will SHED pounds. FYI a lot of trainers are idiots.  If weight loss is your main goal, a little weightlifting here and there is important but you really cannot beat running.  I've seen trainers advising weighted oblique work for women.  What? You're just going to build a bunch of weird muscle underneath your lovehandles and push them out further, making you wider. Do some solid core work, but use common sense.  If you want to burn fat, you can either run for 25 minutes or hit the elliptical or bike for over an hour. 

Yes to all this shit. And if you restrict your diet, you're gonna be a calorie burning machine. diet is like 80% especially when you hit a plateau

Nope. Muscles will push your fat out farther = totally false.
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Ha, see, and look how Julian Casablancas ended up!!!!
milly balgeary
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Posts: 11512


« Reply #71 on: Mar 04, 2012, 07:30:46 AM »

You mean more than diet? Or do you mean more than cardio? Cuz I disagree on both those counts  Cool

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DCDave
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Posts: 10387


« Reply #72 on: Mar 04, 2012, 09:25:17 AM »

What Jess said about knees x 2. I don't care how much better the treadmill is for me as a workout, my knees cannot tolerate the stresses it puts on them.
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Bernard
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Posts: 9845


« Reply #73 on: Mar 04, 2012, 10:32:10 AM »

Seriously, think about about a real human life for a second. Who is this imaginary woman who is somehow building muscles so big they bulge, while continuing to eat so poorly and remain so sedentary that she's got a big layer of fat that gets pushed out by it, such that she looks fatter -- and now imagine telling her she's somehow worse off because now she's built muscle, as opposed to having been sedentary with a bad diet before? Why create this completely unreal situation?

I'm not saying weighted oblique work specifically is a must, but the idea that you are going push your fat out with your huge muscles, and especially your obliques! Do you have any idea what women have to go through to get big obliques! That just sit there like a lump under a pile of fat and magically don't do anything else? That's like saying you switch hands when you jerk off so you don't wind up with one Arnold Schwarzenegger arm and fall over because you're so huge on one side.
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Ha, see, and look how Julian Casablancas ended up!!!!
Greg Nog
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« Reply #74 on: Mar 04, 2012, 10:37:55 AM »

I've seen trainers advising weighted oblique work for women.  What? You're just going to build a bunch of weird muscle underneath your lovehandles and push them out further, making you wider.

This is completely absurd, by the way.
EDIT X-post everything Bernard is saying is absolutely true in re how human bodies work; I have never in my life met a single woman doing weight-based resistance exercise about whom I've thought "Gosh, she's way too bulky"; the lady I know who does the most powerlifting on the regular looks svelte, and is INSANELY evangelical about how weight-work and no cardio has helped her lose weight WAY more easily than her years of just doing cardio-based stuff at the gym and being upset by how little effect it had.

How fast do you guys run, and how long do you spend at that speed? It it worth running full speed even if you're heaving in and out through your mouth, or should you only go as fast as your lungs will let you?

I go at like an an average of eight-minute miles, but it's an alternation between "intense jog" and short bursts of "not-quite-full-out sprint".  I've never seen any studies that suggest maintaining a single speed is better than interval training, so I usually try to mix up the speeds I run at.

I just found out that there's a 10K run in Central Park as part of Scotland week in early April, where everyone's encouraged to wear kilts!  I usually run about five miles at a time, so now I'm slowly bringing that up to 6.2 miles.  Apparently, there's a "Scottish celebration" afterward, so I'm hoping it involves post-run whisky and haggis.
« Last Edit: Mar 04, 2012, 10:43:17 AM by Greg Nog » Logged
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