BEHAVE YOURSELVES: Breitbart Memorial LOLconservatives Thread

[jebreject]

You have spineplugs on the East Coast? Lucky sons of bitches. We still have to jack in the old fashioned way. (If you don't know, you really don't want to ask.)

[Babar]

sigh

[coldforge]

Wait, do you guys really do that? That sounds horrible!

[Greg Nog]

Wow, typical elite urban anti-spineplug bias.  Maybe climb off your high horse and put down the capurcino, Einstdexter.

[Anne the Man]

Man I'm sick of opening this board to find you guys condoning Barack Husspineplug Obama's crazy authoritarianism. Do I have to tell you sheeple to WAKE UP or have your brain and heart been entirely filled with sweet dreams of McDonald's and Fox News

[dieblucasdie]

Hey Babar, instead of engaging in pointless grandstanding, here's an actual thing that goes through what Obama has and hasn't done re: civil liberties (though he has acted on some of these since this report came out):

http://www.aclu.org/files/pages/americaunrestored_11_20100119.pdf

I would characterize his record as "about what I thought he'd do." Maybe as far as "slightly disappointing" given that I thought that closing Gitmo quickly was something he'd actually do.

Doubtless ending torture and secret detention facilities abroad will be cold comfort for you, though, given that you still have to put your liquids in a baggie at the TSA counter

[elpollodiablo]

His record of maintaining warrantless wiretaps and various other Bush-era intelligence initiatives is pretty fucking gross, regardless of whether it's "about what you thought he'd do"

[elpollodiablo]

Also it's only "slightly disappointing" that he didn't close Gitmo and folded like laundry on the KSH NYC trial, etc.? I'd call those both grossly disappointing.

[dieblucasdie]

I'm just trying to put some perspective into the conversation: Here's what he did. Here's what he didn't do. I mean, arguing over how disappointed I should be is pretty irrelevant; I had pretty modest expectations for how much CHANGE we'd get. Those things are fucking bullshit, sure; but I was also honestly surprised that he closed those CIA black sites.

[Thermofusion]

I wouldn't feel as let down by Obama if the Tea Party hadn't sought to convince me he's a radical socialist autocrat. No he's not, I sigh in sober disappointment.

[jebreject]

Also it's only "slightly disappointing" that he didn't close Gitmo and folded like laundry on the KSH NYC trial, etc.? I'd call those both grossly disappointing.

Yeah, those are I-can't-in-good-conscience-vote-for-him level disappointments for me, honestly.

Of course, I say that knowing I will likely still vote for him anyway, because I am a horrible human being living a horrible society.

[elpollodiablo]

I mean, yeah, I agree--so why are we all ganging up on Babs on this point in particular? In this regard at least, he's kind of right, albeit in a much narrower and specific way than he imagines.

[Thermofusion]

Yeah I didn't feel like Babar was really trolling you guys (this time), so I didn't understand y'alls counter-trolling.

[hannah]

In other news, Murk's new book of poetry got a really positive write-up from The Weekly Standard: "The best rhymes, indeed, are worthy of the verbal gifts of top hip-hop artists such as Eminem."

[Babar]

Also it's only "slightly disappointing" that he didn't close Gitmo and folded like laundry on the KSH NYC trial, etc.? I'd call those both grossly disappointing.

True. Not to mention he...um.... extended the PATRIOT ACT. Is that really "about what I thought he'd do", blucas? How can you condemn Bush when he was in office but support Obama when he's doing the exact same thing?

I'm not the first to say this, but it's amazing how much mileage Bush has gotten out of the "nobody could have predicted" thing.  Lots of people, including, ya know, Bush's own fucking State Department were skeptical about WMD evidence.  But anyone who opposed the war was painted as a childish hippie who couldn't cope with the realities of terrorism.  And now it's all "how could we have known!?1?!" 

If circa fall 2002 you went and read the top 4 liberal blogs, and the top 5 conservative blogs, both would've seemed to a lot of people to be two sides of the same coin; the bastions of hysterical conspiracy theorists.  "The WMD evidence is fabricated!  Bush will use the Patriot Act to spy on American citizens without warrants!  They're torturing people at Gitmo!"

Way to fulfill liberals' worst fantasies about what conservative governance is like, 43.

I get it that he's a social democrat and you like his economic policies more than Bush's. But isn't there a party you can vote for that has those policies but without all the crazy?

[dieblucasdie]

Yeah, it's totally frustrating how many liberals don't care at all now that Obama's the one doing it! This is something I complain about all the time!

As to the PATRIOT Act specifically: Yeah, I hoped Obama would end warrantless wiretaps, and it sucks the big one that he didn't, but the PATRIOT Act enjoys wide bipartisan support, and I don't think I harbored any illusions about it not being extended in some form.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that I like his "social democrat" "economic policies." You keep not listening to us and arguing with strawmen. As far as I'd go on that score would be to say that they're probably marginally better than the mainstream GOP's call for massive public sector layoffs and the dismantling of the social safety net to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy, and they're certainly better than 1) Shutter the Fed 2) Go back on the gold standard 3) ???? 4) PROFIT. But they certainly aren't going CHANGE or fix much; if you want me to criticize Obama's economic policies, I've got all day.

[Thermofusion]

In other news, Murk's new book of poetry got a really positive write-up from The Weekly Standard: "The best rhymes, indeed, are worthy of the verbal gifts of top hip-hop artists such as Eminem."

I've already bought three copies of Murk's book! Two as gifts for poet-friends. That review kind of misses the point of his work though IMO

[Babar]

Yeah, it's totally frustrating how many liberals don't care at all now that Obama's the one doing it! This is something I complain about all the time!

As to the PATRIOT Act specifically: Yeah, I hoped Obama would end warrantless wiretaps, and it sucks the big one that he didn't, but the PATRIOT Act enjoys wide bipartisan support, and I don't think I harbored any illusions about it not being extended in some form.

I don't know where you're getting the idea that I like his "social democrat" "economic policies." You keep not listening to us and arguing with strawmen. As far as I'd go on that score would be to say that they're probably marginally better than the mainstream GOP's call for massive public sector layoffs and the dismantling of the social safety net to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy, and they're certainly better than 1) Shutter the Fed 2) Go back on the gold standard 3) ???? 4) PROFIT. But they certainly aren't going CHANGE or fix much; if you want me to criticize Obama's economic policies, I've got all day.

By all means, I'm all ears.

edit: I use the term "social democrat" because that is what Americans call liberals are called elsewhere in the world. I actually consider myself a liberal, but it would be misinterpreted in the US.

[dieblucasdie]

Oh God, "I'm not what YOU consider a 'liberal.' I'm a CLASSICAL LIBERAL." You've officially hit all the internet-libertarian-douche talking points: I think we can close up shop now.

[Greg Nog]

I'm reasonably certain dude was just differentiating between the US definition of liberal and the European definition of liberal?

[Babar]

Yes. Not trying to be a douche or anything, just explaining what I meant by "social democrat" since blucas put it in quotes.

[dieblucasdie]

Oh, I didn't put it in quotes to be overly mocking--I just wanted it to be clear that those were Babar's words, since I'm not sure characterizing Obama as a "social democrat" makes much sense, regardless of perspective, especially if we're talking specifically about economic policy, but that's a minor point not really worth arguing over.

I don't want to write a big, long thing, Babar, but basically, from my perspective the stimulus bill was mostly a failure (we can argue about whether specific expenditures were worthwhile, and in my view many of them were, but, apart from the direct aid to the states, very little of it was geared toward the immediate state of the economy), HAMP was an utter disaster which mostly just allowed banks to wringe a few more payments out people headed for foreclosures (NB: this is one that Obama can't blame on needing Olympia Snowe's vote), I'ma be hella depressed if pointless political grandstanding over The Buffett Rule is all that comes of OWS, etc etc

I don't know why I keep bothering to try to tell you this stuff, though, since you'll just say, "I'll take it under advisement" and then come back two days from now, when there's a drone strike or whatever, and tell me how I need to be ashamed of myself.  I mean, if you actually read those old threads instead of just pulling quotes from them to try to make me look bad, you'd see this stuff.  Just a few pages after that one you posted is me and pollo having a big sissy-slapfest with Dave over Obama's Nobel.

[Babar]

I guess what I'm waiting for is for you to say that you won't vote for Obama because from what I can tell, we dislike him just as much. Then the argument is always "yeah, but the alternatives....". Is there really no party or candidate that proposes socialized welfare and universal healthcare and all that good stuff but without the backwards drug policy, pro-war and anti-privacy craziness? As long as you keep supporting Obama of course I'm gonna keep bringing up the drone war in Pakistan and all that bad stuff just like you will keep bringing up Ron Paul's stance on abortion when I voice my support for him.

[DCDave]

The most immediate issue of course is that Ron Paul is not the alternative to Barack Obama.

[dieblucasdie]

You'd have me vote for... who exactly? Green Party? They have their own issues, especially in the past 4-6 years, and ain't never going to be a viable, coherent progressive alternative. Unity? LOL. Join Tom Friedman and shout at the heavens for a Bloomberg candidacy? I'm good, bruh. Not vote? I might actually do that, though I'd of course go vote for Obama if I lived in a swing state. If I do go vote for Obama, it will be entirely because, when I'm 80, I want to be able to say, "I voted for the black dude" and my vote's entirely symbolic anyhow.

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