New news thread (sorry no witticism lol)

[justinh]

blargh...this is truly some next level ridiculous shit.  And the worst part may be that a significant portion of the electorate thinks it's "common sense" that you can't mandate people to buy insurance (despite at least 75 years of precedent). 

[FreddyKnuckles]

Yeah... My crystal ball says.... unconstitutional individual mandate unconstitutional 5-4.  Scalia will write a concurring in part, dissenting in part, opinion that it is unconstitutional AND severable joined by Clarence Thomas and MAAYBE Alito or Roberts but not both.  I'm guessing there will be at least 4, maybe even 5 written opinions.   Who do you guys think will write the dissent?  A Newbie or someone clinging to life? 


Also, are you guys glad that they spent the first two years of the administration, with a majority in the house and senate, during a catastrophic economic crisis, on this reallyawesomebill?

the supreme court (including our liberal swing voter) has been looking for a chances to pull back on the commerce clause powers for quite a while, so you can't really be surprised justinh.

Personally, I don't believe in judicial review.  Marbury v madison is judge made law!

[Greg Nog]

the worst part may be that a significant portion of the electorate thinks it's "common sense" that you can't mandate people to buy insurance (despite at least 75 years of precedent). 

Precedent or not, I actually think that government requiring people to buy into a for-profit system without providing a nonprofit competing alternative is a pretty dick move.

[dieblucasdie]

the worst part may be that a significant portion of the electorate thinks it's "common sense" that you can't mandate people to buy insurance (despite at least 75 years of precedent). 

Precedent or not, I actually think that government requiring people to buy into a for-profit system without providing a nonprofit competing alternative is a pretty dick move.

Yup. Part of the reason why I voted for Obama and not Clinton, sadly enough!

FK, I would ask you if you think things'll be awesome when Romney wins and the GOP establishes what amounts to ACA markets without the oversight: Cool, let's just let all the health insurance companies move to whichever state has the shittiest regulations and teh markets sort it out

[Good Intentions]

Whenever people talk about free market solutions to healthcare provision, they should be kicked in the teeth. The impossibility of such free-market solutions been an established result in mainstream economics since the 1970s. They're cheats and liars, and should be treated as such.

[FreddyKnuckles]

the worst part may be that a significant portion of the electorate thinks it's "common sense" that you can't mandate people to buy insurance (despite at least 75 years of precedent). 

Precedent or not, I actually think that government requiring people to buy into a for-profit system without providing a nonprofit competing alternative is a pretty dick move.

Yup. Part of the reason why I voted for Obama and not Clinton, sadly enough!

FK, I would ask you if you think things'll be awesome when Romney wins and the GOP establishes what amounts to ACA markets without the oversight: Cool, let's just let all the health insurance companies move to whichever state has the shittiest regulations and teh markets sort it out

bout1 fight

[Antero]

Whenever people talk about free market solutions to healthcare provision, they should be kicked in the teeth. The impossibility of such free-market solutions been an established result in mainstream economics since the 1970s. They're cheats and liars, and should be treated as such.

Because if motherfucking Hayek disagrees with the efficacy of your free-market scheme you're probably on some unforgivable bullshit.

[FreddyKnuckles]

Mind. Blown.

Hey I'm 27 and unemployed. Now I have to buy health insurance i can't afford or pay a tax i can't afford. Sweet. I'm going to go join occupy movement now thanks.

[fishjim]

Right there with you, Knuckles. Glad to have you on the dark side.

[elpollodiablo]

The tax you can't afford will be about sixty bucks.

[dieblucasdie]

I thought you already had "pretty good health insurance"?

It's really, really bullshit that they upheld the mandate but questioned the Medicaid expansion, because A) You can't require everyone to have insurance and not give the poor some means to get it, and B) it's one part of that Frankenstein of a bill that will actually, for sure, expand access and improve outcomes.

[DCDave]

Mind. Blown.

Hey I'm 27 and unemployed. Now I have to buy health insurance i can't afford or pay a tax i can't afford. Sweet. I'm going to go join occupy movement now thanks.

LOL, except if the premiums are 8% of your income you're exempt, and Medicare covers you if you're at what, like 200% of the poverty line.

Edit: Also, my health insurance costs less than my cable bill does.

[DCDave]

I thought you already had "pretty good health insurance"?

It's really, really bullshit that they upheld the mandate but questioned the Medicaid expansion, because A) You can't require everyone to have insurance and not give the poor some means to get it, and B) it's one part of that Frankenstein of a bill that will actually, for sure, expand access and improve outcomes.

They didn't question the Medicaid expansion, they limited the scope of powers the Federal government has to regulate what states do with their Medicaid money, I thought.

[Thermofusion]

Edit: Also, my health insurance costs less than my cable bill does.

With who? I've been shopping plans lately and the cheapest one that looks halfway decent to me is $119/month

[Thermofusion]

And even that one has $30 office visits, which is a fucking rip

[DCDave]

Edit: Also, my health insurance costs less than my cable bill does.

With who? I've been shopping plans lately and the cheapest one that looks halfway decent to me is $119/month

Kaiser Permanente, and my cable bill is more than 119/month :-/

[Greg Nog]

Kaiser Permanente

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he was only temporary

[Thermofusion]

My cable is billed at the "call TWC and threaten repeatedly to switch to Direct TV" special rate.

[elpollodiablo]

I get the $50/ month all inclusive rate

[fishjim]

Kaiser Permanente

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he was only temporary

The modern HMO: Born of a dickhead industrialist's need to build ships, dams, and aqueducts through the California desert without his exploited thousands rioting or dying.

As for the name:

The name Permanente came from Permanente Creek, which ran by Henry J. Kaiser's first cement plant on Black Mountain in Cupertino, California. Kaiser's first wife, Bess Fosburgh, liked the name.

DAM THE RIVERS

STEAL THE CREEKS

[Thermofusion]

My basic criteria for insurance is "anyone but Blue Cross/Blue Shield." I kinda miss my shitty work plan.

[jebreject]

Man so this is totally going to work out in Romney's favor though isn't it? He can nail Obama on the "this is not a tax increase" thing and he can work to make the election largely a mandate on the law itself, large portions of which are terribly unpopular. Simply by promising to repeal the law as soon as he is able, Romney gains a lot of traction, doesn't he?

[davy]

My basic criteria for insurance is "anyone but Blue Cross/Blue Shield." I kinda miss my shitty work plan.

I've been in a ditch fight with BCBS for the past two weeks for rejecting a totally benign claim for a routine physical. A month ago I was extremely disappointed to learn that they wouldn't cover a cent of anything related to getting a much-needed pair of hearing aids. So much frustration.

I was not this frustrated when I had no insurance at all. And I wasn't any healthier, either.

[Thermofusion]

That sucks, man! Yeah I hate those guys. With BCBS you pay a premium for the privilege of a higher claim rejection rate. They're notorious in NC.

[jess]

So much of the problem with health care in this country isn't about not having insurance anyway, it's about the huge amount of debt you can still go into even with insurance. I have insurance, and my medical bills (which are almost all prescription costs) still average about $800/month (actually slightly less thanks to Walgreens discount services, but still close to that). Getting better health insurance via the state would cost about the same amount. Yay chronic medical conditions. I'm just super thankful I've never had a time without health insurance otherwise I'd be way more fucked.

Also, BCBS Massachusetts was awesome—I was pretty much covered for everything and they had great customer service. Probably varies a lot state by state and perhaps also by plan type. Only trouble I ever had was getting coverage for Zyrtec back when it was still prescription only, and they wanted me to try Allegra first (which I had unofficially tried and found ineffective), but I eventually got it covered.