How to Pronounce Stuff

[alistarr*]

Let's have a go at ol' Worcestershire while we're at it.

Round here we usually pronounce it "lea and perrins", but I realise now that I haven't actually said that word since becoming a vegan.

[davy]

They have vegan stuff! Usually the store-brand varieties that are too cheap to use real anchovies.

[Greg Nog]

Again I will rep miso paste as a great alternative for adding umami to veggie stuff!

[justinh]

I was confused the other day when I pronounced the word Cheshire as "chesh-ur" and was met with confusion.  It seems Australians (or at least this one) pronounce it "chesh-ire".  Is this normal?

No, that's weird. I think... now I don't know. The only time I use the word "Cheshire" is with a bunch of English ex-pats and it's pretty much as you pronounced it I think.... I'm comparing it in my head with "Worcestershire" (which also has the schwa ending for me)...

Not a lot of shires around here (except for that terrible-looking TV show)--but there is a cafe near our place called "Cheshire" which birthed this controversy.  Maybe I should ask the owners...

[clare]

You definitely should. Actually, I just remembered that there's an alternate pronunciation of 'shear' as the last syllable (with no rhotic of course, around here) which is common. (worcestershire reminded me 'woostuhsheah' where the 'oo' is as in 'book' and the 'r's have been subbed with 'h') But pronouncing it as 'shire' seems inevitable when the name stands alone as a proper noun for your local...

[Nick Ink]

Yeah, it's Wooster-shear here, and certainly in Worcestershire.

[justinh]

It complicates things that Australians don't pronounce Rs ever (except at the end of words that don't end in R).  My Cheshire-pronouncing friend claims to not be able to hear the difference between "idea" and "idear".

The longer I live here, the longer my As get, but I don't think I'll ever get on board with the Rs. 

[clare]

What complicates things more is the prevalence of US accents here on TV and whatever. If your friend has never thought about phonetics, I'm not surprised they can't distinguish between the two. The bloke struggles in the opposite direction - he puts rhotics in where they don't belong, as he's mentally translating/compensating for it. For example, there is a town centre here called Manuka (which is already mispronounced from the original NZ - it's a plant, which is Mah-noo-ka, with the stress on the middle syllable) which we pronounce Mah-ni-kah, with stress on the first syllable. Bloke knows that there's no rhotic on the end, but he's always putting one on the first syllable, which makes him sound like a total tourist :-)

[justinh]

At least he's making an effort!  Kirsten says "idear", but it sounds like a put-on to me still.  I'm probably less vulnerable to changes in my accent since I spend 50% of my time talking with people in the US (or India, or China) for work. 

[Greg Nog]

It complicates things that Australians don't pronounce Rs ever (except at the end of words that don't end in R).  My Cheshire-pronouncing friend claims to not be able to hear the difference between "idea" and "idear".

Ah, that's like southern New England!  "I have no idear," etc

[coldforge]

Actually, linking and intrusive R are a feature of nearly all non-rhotic dialects.

[clare]

Yep. Glottal stops are just too much work for us.

[Little Sixes Little Nines]

well howr about that?

[alistarr*]

They have vegan stuff! Usually the store-brand varieties that are too cheap to use real anchovies.

I think it's more that we don't eat cheese on toast any more, but that's good to know, thanks :-)

[jm]

well howr about that?

Do people say this? It doesn't fit into the previously-mentioned category.

[bethany_m]

My favorite common Newfoundland pronunciation is to replace the "th" sound in the middle of words with a "dd" sound.  Mother turns into mudder, another one is anodder one.  I smile every time I hear it.

Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQS1Rwo5vp0

[Ashley]

beth i am wildly homesick why are you doing this to me!

Newfoundlanders also pronounce beer and bear the same.  This is pretty much the only remnant of an accent I have left.  People on the mainland are genuinely confused by it.  "Pass you a bear? What bear???"

[Little Sixes Little Nines]

well howr about that?

Do people say this? It doesn't fit into the previously-mentioned category.

this is the linking R mentioned above. people do it constantly.

including the beatles!

[Bernard]

Oh, yeah! Sawr. What's up with that. I have been converted to liking bolth now that I realize my trainer, the glorious, says it. She can do no wrong.

[jm]

well howr about that?

Do people say this? It doesn't fit into the previously-mentioned category.

this is the linking R mentioned above. people do it constantly.

including the beatles!

Yeah what I'm saying is I've never heard "howr", especially since it's got the wrong kind of vowel sound to require a linking r.

Like, it doesn't even qualify. It has a linking consonant built in. Plus, the Beatles "example" is not functional, but an intentional use of colloquial phonetics.

[coldforge]

Jammy, the coda of 'how' is a diphthong, realized differently between GenAm and NZ English, but with with two vowels to one syllable in both cases. So there's no consonant there, though I could see dialects only producing linking Rs after monophthongs.

(googling...)

Indeed, a glance here

www.lacl.canterbury.ac.nz/jen/documents/hay-nwave-slides.pdf

would indicate that a) glide vowels usually do interrupt linking r, and b) it's happening in NZE [au] anyway.

[coldforge]

Actually, that glance was too quick and I misread the premise. The diphthong had nothing to do with the expected lack of intrusive r. Rather it was the vowel quality; what leads us to expect no r in 'how' is the fact that it ends in a /u/ sound. So you can glide or no, it's a matter of height.

[Good Intentions]

A linguistic observation: this thread is likely to have the highest prevalence on the boards of 'actually' in sentence initial position.

[jm]

I like how I was "corrected" by being told I was right.

[coldforge]

You weren't right, dude. There's only one consonant in 'how', and people do use linking r after that word where L6L9 is from. I was just trying to be polite, for chrissakes.