is it okay that I don't like Frank Ocean?

[Charming Tedious]

I mean, his voice is great, but the songwriting seems either way undercooked or too cute by half and the production doesn't exactly slay me. 

Plus there's the whole "R&B Ken Mehlman" thing.

When I've tentatively tried to express this opinion, I get a lot of pushback.  There's a weird compulsory enthusiasm thing going on that I'm having trouble unpacking.

[Chet]

NO IT'S NOT OKAY. YOU ARE A TERRIBLE, AWFUL PERSON. YOU FUCKING SUCK.





This thread is really stupid.

[Charming Tedious]

well, it is now, anyway!

[YojimboMonkey]

I like Billy Ocean

[Charming Tedious]

Me too!  the whole Love Zone LP is solid.

[Captain]

I like the Ocean, but eating Franks in the Ocean? Eh... what if you dropped one?

Nope, never mind. I'm picturing it now. Franks in the Ocean is pretty alright.

[jebreject]

When I've tentatively tried to express this opinion, I get a lot of pushback.  There's a weird compulsory enthusiasm thing going on that I'm having trouble unpacking.

Why do you suppose it is that fans of this album (who are perhaps not actual fans at all) claim to like this album so much and express shock when others dislike it? Because Ocean came out as bisexual, and that somehow makes this album a Big Deal? That's what you mean by the "whole Ken Mehlman thing," yeah?

Could it be that the pushback is because the album is genuinely that good, and that you're being incredibly uncharitable in describing the enthusiasm around the album as "compulsory"? And that when you describe it that way, people might get a little defensive, because you're telling them they don't actually like something that they think they do?

I dunno, something to think about.

[jebreject]

Like, it's really obnoxious that just because you don't like it (which, totally fine, dude), it can't possibly be the case that other people actually like it, but rather only claim to like it because of the cultural capital liking it creates, or for other, ulterior reasons.

[shai faithe]

yeah this album is jaw-droppingly good, but why wouldn't it be okay to dislike it?
do you feel you should? why?

[jebreject]

Yeah, I think that's far more worthy of unpacking than why other people like it

[dieblucasdie]

Like, it's really obnoxious that just because you don't like it (which, totally fine, dude), it can't possibly be the case that other people actually like it, but rather only claim to like it because of the cultural capital liking it creates, or for other, ulterior reasons.

This.

[dieblucasdie]

And, you know, while I'm sure some of the positive reaction is colored by general goodwill for Frank, I'm just as sure that some of the backlash is colored by general disinterest in the type of music he makes (CT's knock on his songwriting is telling). That's not a bad thing; you're not required to be interested in everything. There are certainly genres where I'm an annoying dilettante. But an emptying out of context != unfiltered engagement. It's its own context.

Fundamentally, I don't think Channel Orange is a record like My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy or ArchAndroid, where the sort of person who only listens to the 3 or 4 most critically hyped hip-hop/R&B records of each year is going to love it. (Again, not knocking that sort of person). That's partially hip-hop's own damn fault: It's easy to see why, in a world where Snoop gets carted out to do guest verses on Katy Perry songs, a casual hip-hop listener would gravitate towards self-consciously BEYOND HIP-HOP records. Channel Orange isn't that, it's just an exceptional record by an exciting young talent. It's not pulling out a bag of tricks to try to win you over. Frank's been doing this a while; he just upped his game on this one, and it's exhilarating to see.

So ignore it or dislike it if you want, but it kinda grates when someone wants call Emperor Has No Clothes like he's the only one with pure intentions, and then go back to anticipating the next Dirty Projectors record or whatever. Nobody really asked you, bruh

[Chet]

still think i said it best.

[lucky strike]

i see this young man has you all in a very emotional way

[YojimboMonkey]

Yo listen I'll start getting interested in Frank Ocean when he starts making inexplicable Star-Wars-cantina-meets-creepy-Dark-Crystal-muppets videos for his songs http://youtu.be/sIBj62rDmK4

[dieblucasdie]

NM I guess DeRegotis' take on Channel Orange is "Remaking R&B." ugh time to join the backlash

[jebreject]

NM I guess DeRegotis' take on Channel Orange is "Remaking R&B." ugh time to join the backlash

I don't even know what any of this means

[dieblucasdie]

http://www.wbez.org/blogs/jim-derogatis/2012-07/frank-ocean-remaking-rb-101113

The Sound Opinions/former Sun-Times dude. Whenever he praises a hip-hop album, he does it by way of saying, "IT'S NOT LIKE OTHER HIP-HOP." He is basically the idiot I have in mind whenever I hate on rock critics

[Thermofusion]

I like how he says this

a strong argument can be made that a voice this fresh and a vision for remaking R&B this bold puts him in the ranks of D’Angelo, Prince, Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye. And no, that’s not hyperbole.

then proceeds to not make that argument, or even attempt it. Which neatly confirms it was hyperbole to begin with.

[JamesSchneider]

I have enjoyed the Bret Easton Ellis/ Joan Didion "distinctively Californian" diagnoses than any of the sub-cromag analysis from DeRegotis etc. Mostly, though, I just like listening to the record. I kinda liked the first record, then disliked a lot of the dopey hooks (lyrically) on Watch The Throne. This feels like a whole different thing.

[milly balgeary]

This shit is a grower.

[milly balgeary]

I think it's cool that CT feels like this, and makes this thread, because it starts conversation. Not sure why y'll are striking out so hard on the dude! I see the appearance of the dubious nature of his contemplation of Channel Orange, but when you are hanging with peeps, this is the way you talk, right? Like, "Man, the dude sounds like Keith Sweat had a mutant baby with Lotoya Jackson n shit," and your friend is like, "He kinda look crazy menacing in that video for that last 13 minute joint their crew put out where they was rapping in the studio," and you are like, "that dude gay!" and your friend is like, "that's true. I'd hit that, and I ain't gay." And then you go home. Now, you can find several offensive type things in that imaginary conversation, like, "why would you say that about Keith Sweat and Lotoya Jackson havin a mutant baby; is it because they are black and all mutants are black?" Or "So he's gay and how you want to make a sexual advance? Are you saying you would rape Channel Orange?"

What I'm saying is you guys are acting like CT is an enemy instead of some dude just beatin boxin some chatter. Like, I'm surprised you guys didn't drive to his house and knock on the door, and hand him a Watchtower with a dismembered finger in it, bleeding out. Maybe Frank Ocean's finger. You guys wayyy overreactin.

I don't like R&B CT, in fact, I'd usually like to blow R&B up in a small portable nuke, and let the fallout melt the faces of these yodeling tricks, but this shit pretty tight. I mean, I gave it an extra listen and attention because of the buzz, but it good. I think even songs I don't think I will like, like Super Rich Kids, which I think is pretty dumb, now enchant me after a 5th listen. Enchant me like a unicorn Sonnnnnnn!

[milly balgeary]

Man, I bout to get the wrath of the R&B critics up in he', you guys gonna use vibrato on me? Dieblue and Jeb walking down a busy urban street, dressed simliarly, just singing their ANGER. I'm calling that shit "channelin' orange", you guys are channelin orange. Bloomin with vengeance and wrath, singing so soft and loud. Dieblue does a fucking move! He wrecks a car with a flick of his hip. Jeb is holding a rose. He waves it in front of his face, white-gloved hand caressing the rose, "like your breast," he croons, "hold this rose like your breasttttttt!"

[milly balgeary]

Nevermind.

[dieblucasdie]

I like CT I just think dudes who rep Dirty Projectors shouldn't talk shit about other people's songwriting being "half-baked" and I would say so in a bar