us/canadian border crossing when your just hoofing it

[SPACERACE]

And stephanie, what's wrong with Canada? Every other person I know who's been there (which is pretty much everyone I know) absolutly loves it.

[ohnoanotherputz]

pocky is sub-par at best. thats right, I said it.

[diesel_powered]

Wait, who's saying we don't have pocky here?

Yeah, I was gonna say. Even the most crap asian markets have 42 kinds of pocky.

[ohnoanotherputz]

And stephanie, what's wrong with Canada? Every other person I know who's been there (which is pretty much everyone I know) absolutly loves it.

Fact: Canada (or as it shall henceforth be refered to as Canuckslyvania) is plagued with eternal snow, rampaging polar bears, and drunken mounties. Furthermore, their architecture consists primarily on variations of your standard Igloo.

Fact.

(plus Celine Dion is from Canuckslyvania, need I say more?)

[Maaik]

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong (too late), I can get all the fucking Pocky I want.  What I can't get are these fascinating flavored Kit Kats.

I mean Christ, the best the US has been able to muster is Snickers Crunch and bigger M&Ms?

It's like M&Ms...

Go on...

Well, it's exactly like M&Ms...

But...?

It's much bigger.

Way to fucking go guys.

[ohnoanotherputz]

I mean Christ, the best the US has been able to muster is Snickers Crunch and bigger M&Ms?
.

Hey now! Come on... There are smaller M & M's too!

[diesel_powered]

Also, I heard Winnipeg is a frozen shithole.

[SPACERACE]

And stephanie, what's wrong with Canada? Every other person I know who's been there (which is pretty much everyone I know) absolutly loves it.

Fact: Canada (or as it shall henceforth be refered to as Canuckslyvania) is plagued with eternal snow, rampaging polar bears, and drunken mounties. Furthermore, their architecture consists primarily on variations of your standard Igloo.

Fact.

(plus Celine Dion is from Canuckslyvania, need I say more?)

Oh, well if you can't take cold weather, then sure.

Pussies.

[ohnoanotherputz]

Oh, well if you can't take cold weather, then sure.

Pussies.

Heh, actually Northern Minnesota is about right on par in terms of coldness with Canada, we just don't have the rampaging polar bears and drunken mounties.

[mackro]

if one is really going to complain about Canada, he/she should talk about how the Canadian dollar is almost as strong as the US dollar, yet almost everything in Canada is more expensive.... and how the free health care system is just getting fucked.

[diesel_powered]

Heh, actually Northern Minnesota is about right on par in terms of coldness with Canada, we just don't have the rampaging polar bears and drunken mounties.

Where in Northern Minnesota are you from, exactly?


Up here the bears keep their rampaging confined to the gay bars.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Also, I heard Winnipeg is a frozen shithole.

haha meanwhile the weakerthans hate it and swallowing shit want to burn it to the fucking ground. there's obviously no love lost between the punk bands of winnipeg and the city itself.

[Andrew_TSKS]

if one is really going to complain about Canada, he/she should talk about how the Canadian dollar is almost as strong as the US dollar, yet almost everything in Canada is more expensive.... and how the free health care system is just getting fucked.

seriously dude, can you expand on both of those points? i always was under the impression that canada's dollar was just worth less than the us dollar, which was why things like books are marked with higher canadian prices than their us prices. and as for the free health care system... well, it's better than the one in this country.

[ohnoanotherputz]

Where in Northern Minnesota are you from, exactly?


Up here the bears keep their rampaging confined to the gay bars.

Twin Ports.

[El_Josharino]

The polar bears and drunken Mounties sold me.  Canada, here I come.

[diesel_powered]

Where in Northern Minnesota are you from, exactly?


Up here the bears keep their rampaging confined to the gay bars.

Twin Ports.

Could be worse, you could live in Grand Marais.

[SPACERACE]

Andrew, keep in mind that the dollar now rivals the peso.


I like Canada because marijuana is (almost) legal, and I've heard wonderful stories about the the people there. And I'm guessing that the two are no coincidence.

[mackro]

Right now it's $1.16CAN to $1.00US... however, for things like, say, CDs.. a new CD in a Canadian record store costs around $19.99CAN plus 14% sales tax (unless you're in Alberta or maybe another province).    In the U.S., it will likely cost around $11.99US... plus anywhere between 0% to 9% sales tax depending on which state you live.   So, as a music fiend, I find Canada a bit trying these days... I was just in Vancouver this past weekend.  I tried.  I gave up.

Also, as for the health care system, this really depends from province to province but...

Andrew, say you had a really weird pain in your stomach and you had nightsweats and you felt a little nauseous... but for now, it wasn't putting you out of commission... at least yet.  Would you put yourself on a waiting list that could last up to 2-3 weeks to have someone look at it free of charge?  Or would you pony up some money to have it looked into right away?

I'm not asking this question as a way of saying "See?  Canada sucks."  I'm just really curious how you'd answer the question.  It would obviously depend on whether you had a job or not, most likely.   Actually, anyone else is free to answer the question as well.

I really like Canada.  I have family there.  I'm half Canadian.  I can't hate it.  But it has its ups and downs, just like the U.S.   I haven't heard one good story about someone needing serious medical treatment in Canada.  For sick leave, and coughs and flus and things like that, thumbs up!  For things that might require specialists however.. um..

..I guess, among many other things, Americans are having to pay for the cheapness... in the form of requiring personal medical insurance.   It's not free, but it could be better than waiting three weeks for something that may end up permanently disabling you, because you couldn't be treated fast enough.  (I'm not sure if you can pay to push yourself ahead in the queue when it comes to things like this in Canada.  I'd have to talk more with my family.  But it pains me to hear my 60 year old aunt in Nanaimo tell me that she had to wait a month to have her bad knee looked at while she was horribly wobbling around the house last Xmas... and having to commute and teach children at school all this time.)

[Andrew_TSKS]

considering the fact that, here in america where i live right now, something like that would not even have me putting my name on a waiting list to see a doctor in 3 weeks but instead taking whatever cheap over the counter crap i could get and hoping it clears up, and considering the fact that, here in america, i'd have to wait until i really was dangerously sick and then go to the emergency room, where i'd have to either see a payment counselor before receiving any treatment or else get stuck with a huge bill i can't afford (and i'd have to go to a public hospital, too, so that i could at least be assured treatment even if i couldn't ever pay the bill), i'll take the option of putting my name on a waiting list. because here in america, the only option available is ponying up money to go to a doctor now. and what if i'm broke? then i can sit home and feel like shit and not get to talk to or see anyone about it ever.

at worst, canada's healthcare system has quite a ways to go before it sucks as much as the one here. QUITE a ways.

in all seriousness, the more i read over your post the more i can tell that you have a decent amount of money at your disposal. it's written as if the idea of an american not being able to afford any form of health insurance and by extension not being able to afford the kind of expensive pricetags that all forms of medical care in america currently have has never occurred to you. to give you an idea of just what it's like for people with no health insurance: i personally have hypertension, and have to take 3 different kinds of medicine every day. i also have to go to the doctor at least once every few months for periodic checkups. i spend around $120 a month on prescription refills, and my doctor appointments, which so far have been happening on an average of once every two months, cost anywhere from $48 to $135, depending on how much work i get done. my take home salary is around $1200 a month. at this point, my medical expenses are sucking up at LEAST 10% of my monthly salary, and that's in months where i don't see the doctor. i'm sure that i'd be in a better position in canada.

[mackro]

in all seriousness, the more i read over your post the more i can tell that you have a decent amount of money at your disposal. it's written as if the idea of an american not being able to afford any form of health insurance and by extension not being able to afford the kind of expensive pricetags that all forms of medical care in america currently have has never occurred to you. to give you an idea of just what it's like for people with no health insurance: i personally have hypertension, and have to take 3 different kinds of medicine every day. i also have to go to the doctor at least once every few months for periodic checkups. i spend around $120 a month on prescription refills, and my doctor appointments, which so far have been happening on an average of once every two months, cost anywhere from $48 to $135, depending on how much work i get done. my take home salary is around $1200 a month. at this point, my medical expenses are sucking up at LEAST 10% of my monthly salary, and that's in months where i don't see the doctor. i'm sure that i'd be in a better position in canada.

Before I reply, and I realize this is personal (but you kinda made it personal now.), I wanted to ask:  are there no options for you to even get some form of minimal individual insurance?  If so, have you tried?  I realize it's a chicken/egg problem if you're trying to get insurance when you already have a known problem, and therefore won't qualify.. and you have to somehow find a job working for a major corporation where you can be part of a group plan and worry less about it.

But don't assume I know nothing about not affording medical costs.  I've had some serious mental/physical issues in the past few years, and all I had was a shitty individual plan that covered basically nothing of it.  Even while working, I was having a tough time making it for a while...  Though I'm not broke, true.  

But talking to relatives north of the border, they told me I was "still lucky" and listed a bunch of things about the B.C. health care system, as it stood then, where certain family members basically elected to pony up the money to see someone in the U.S. instead.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Before I reply, and I realize this is personal (but you kinda made it personal now.), I wanted to ask:  are there no options for you to even get some form of minimal individual insurance?  If so, have you tried?  I realize it's a chicken/egg problem if you're trying to get insurance when you already have a known problem, and therefore won't qualify..

i honestly don't know. my dad keeps saying he's gonna look into it, because he's made offers to pay for it for me until such a time as i've been on it long enough that they'll start covering my medical costs, so i don't have to pay full price for meds/doctor visits AND pay for insurance on top of it. but he's dragging his feet about it, and since he's doing me a favor if it ever happens, i don't feel i have the right to bug him about it. and if i've gotta pay for the insurance on top of the medical costs, let's face it, it ain't gonna happen.

and you have to somehow find a job working for a major corporation where you can be part of a group plan and worry less about it.

see, and that ain't gonna happen either. i know a lot of people would define the way i live right now as "throwing my life away", but as far as i see it, the real throwing my life away would be doing what you just mentioned. fuck it, not worth it.

But don't assume I know nothing about not affording medical costs.  I've had some serious mental/physical issues in the past few years, and all I had was a shitty individual plan that covered basically nothing of it.  Even while working, I was having a tough time making it for a while...  Though I'm not broke, true.

don't get me wrong, that does suck. i just felt like the way you were talking about it indicated a certain amount of assumption of privilege. like, it's fine if that's how it is in your life--and the fact that my parents are even in a position to make the offer described above points out that it's that way in my life too, at least to some extent. at the end of the day, though, i think the assumption that how it is for reasonably well-off middle class families is an accurate reflection of which system works better in general isn't really fair.  

But talking to relatives north of the border, they told me I was "still lucky" and listed a bunch of things about the B.C. health care system, as it stood then, where certain family members basically elected to pony up the money to see someone in the U.S. instead.

this example further illustrates my point. if you lived in the us and didn't have the financial wherewithal to pony up the money, you'd just be fucked, whereas at least in canada you could suffer through a waiting list and get to see a doctor eventually. as far as i'm concerned, if you have the money to afford going to a doctor on your own, state-sponsored health care isn't there for you anyway. no offense to anyone in particular, especially not you or your family, mackro, but when i hear people talking about how they feel like they're better off paying for a doctor in that situation, i tend to think "well, if you can afford to do that, you've got no reason to complain, so shut up and do it." i realize (boy do i realize) that medical expenses can be pretty insane, but if you really do run out of money the worst that happens is you get to go home to your free canadian doctors. on the other hand, in america you have no options.

and it fucking drives me crazy when american people say we shouldn't have universal, government provided health care by saying "we'll end up like canada!" OH NOES I'LL BE ABLE TO SEE A DOCTOR WHEN I'M SICK! HOW AWFUL! so yeah, this is a pet peeve. guh. sorry.

[cold before sunrise]

mackro? there was an article in the provincial paper a few years ago comparing cd prices from around cities the world that was trying to convince readers vancouver has the cheapest music anywhere. it might have been a cruel joke. got my copy of 'rejoicing in the hands' lp in calgary, where it set me back $37. anyway, next time you're in vancity you'd have your best luck treading shops like highlife, zulu, neptune... i don't really know.

and hey, uh... andrew? so you still consider yourself straight edge after taking all those pharmeceutical drugs, huh? i think student acupuncturists charge like, ten bucks or something.

[mackro]

mackro wrote:
and you have to somehow find a job working for a major corporation where you can be part of a group plan and worry less about it.

see, and that ain't gonna happen either. i know a lot of people would define the way i live right now as "throwing my life away", but as far as i see it, the real throwing my life away would be doing what you just mentioned. fuck it, not worth it.

Well, there are independent companies that offer group plans too.  And there are plenty of major corporations that DON'T offer it... I was generalizing in my statement.  I'm not sure what you mean by how working for a company with a group insurance plan would be a "real throwing your life away" type situation.. but I'm guessing this is just a lifestyle issue that has nothing to do with this argument, or I'm misunderstanding you, or both, so I'll just move on...

this example further illustrates my point. if you lived in the us and didn't have the financial wherewithal to pony up the money, you'd just be fucked, whereas at least in canada you could suffer through a waiting list and get to see a doctor eventually. as far as i'm concerned, if you have the money to afford going to a doctor on your own, state-sponsored health care isn't there for you anyway. no offense to anyone in particular, especially not you or your family, mackro, but when i hear people talking about how they feel like they're better off paying for a doctor in that situation, i tend to think "well, if you can afford to do that, you've got no reason to complain, so shut up and do it." i realize (boy do i realize) that medical expenses can be pretty insane, but if you really do run out of money the worst that happens is you get to go home to your free canadian doctors. on the other hand, in america you have no options.

and it fucking drives me crazy when american people say we shouldn't have universal, government provided health care by saying "we'll end up like canada!" OH NOES I'LL BE ABLE TO SEE A DOCTOR WHEN I'M SICK! HOW AWFUL! so yeah, this is a pet peeve. guh. sorry.

Well, the thing is.. it's really easy to attribute black and white things between Canada and the U.S. as far as health care issues go.  The only black & white thing one can say that is true is "Canada has a federal health care system.  The U.S. does not."   Does that make Canada a better country to live in for people with medical issues than the U.S.?  Not automatically.  It depends on the person, his/her financial situation, his/her medical issues, etc.

The U.S. doesn't have a federal system, but some states have state systems, and some cities have city systems.  Seattle has several free clinics (donations strongly recommended for people who are better off, based on a linear income scale.) for example.. especially a great one for STDs... even people with well-off jobs go there and pay the full price.  (There are some who say otherwise, but anyway..).  Sure, their funding is always in question...

But then again, depending on the province, Canadian health care facilities go up and down as well, based on federal/provincial funding.  B.C., right now, has a centrist-right wing premier (Gordon Campbell did win the reelection, unfortunately, right?), and he's been slashing a lot of otherwise cheaper/free health facilities in the province.   I'm not sure about the other provinces.

I guess my main point was:   It's not as easy as saying "Canada rules because they have free health care."  There are a lot of factors that understate some facilities that exist in the U.S., and there are lot of factors that overstate the facilities that exist (or not) in Canada as well.  It's a pet peeve of mine when people state the above like some sort of black & white statement, especially by those who have only visited Canada, like, twice or less.  (I'm not saying you're one of those folks, Andrew)

Again, maybe walking through a part of Vancouver this past weekend that looked like a scene from the Carmageddon video game (My Vancouver friend's words, not mine!) with roaming crackheads in serious need of all sorts of medical help, may have skewed my perspective before approaching this argument.

[mackro]

mackro? there was an article in the provincial paper a few years ago comparing cd prices from around cities the world that was trying to convince readers vancouver has the cheapest music anywhere. it might have been a cruel joke. got my copy of 'rejoicing in the hands' lp in calgary, where it set me back $37. anyway, next time you're in vancity you'd have your best luck treading shops like highlife, zulu, neptune... i don't really know.

Well either it was a cruel joke, or times have changed quickly.  Let's compare a certain album I saw in both stores in the past two days:

Zulu Records, Vancouver: The Mountain Goats - Sunset Tree - $17.99CAN + 14% sales tax

Easy Street Records, Seattle: The Mountain Goats - Sunset Tree - $9.99US + 8.75% sales tax

It's nearly 2-to-1 there.  (Or I need to have my eyes checked.)

[mackro]

That said, the prices REALLY depend on what the distributors of said albums charge.. and these can change on a moment's notice.

I find some European stuff, like the Kevin Ayers CD reissues, cheaper in Canadian stores new than in the U.S. (or at least, did, once.) And used CD prices are generally cheaper in Canada as well.  (I once found the rare Rick James' Bustin' Out Of L Seven CD used, in new condition, for $7CAN... BOOYAH!)