This Is Where We Talk About The Teevee

[elpollodiablo]

FAMILY GUY IS TEH SUXX0R

[nonotyet]

Also Weevil and Logan fight, well I'm not a man of violence, nor a fan of the pugilitic arts but that fight was so hot. Jesus am I alone in this.

No, sir. No, you are not.

 

[Wally]

This shit about TV being lesser art is the same shit lit snobs said about film back in the day.

In total agreement. I just don't think tv has reached it's potential yet, while film has occasionally come close. It could be argued that tv has much larger potential as a series can run and run, sprawling over a mass of time, we could actually see and feel characters/actors ageing feel them growing, developing, or withering and dying in a more truthful way.

Difficult, you said early on that you'd not be sniffy at the idea of making a show, providing it would be done on your own terms. With the new ways of making films you mentioned in a more recent post, how long do you think it'll be before the filmaker making the most of dv, begin making tv shows, and making the most of the sheer scope available. Sure it'll be a job and a half getting them on mainstream tv, but with cable/digital and the interthingy there are as many outlets for no budget tv as there are for no-budget film. Of course the sheer prospect of creating, a series in this manner is an overwhelming and logistically nightmare, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. I think when folks start doing this we'll get closer to reaching the potential of audio and visual art forms.

[Wally]

Also Weevil and Logan fight, well I'm not a man of violence, nor a fan of the pugilitic arts but that fight was so hot. Jesus am I alone in this.

No, sir. No, you are not.

 

Oh thank goodness.

 

[DCDave]

This shit about TV being lesser art is the same shit lit snobs said about film back in the day.

In total agreement. I just don't think tv has reached it's potential yet, while film has occasionally come close. It could be argued that tv has much larger potential as a series can run and run, sprawling over a mass of time, we could actually see and feel characters/actors ageing feel them growing, developing, or withering and dying in a more truthful way.

Difficult, you said early on that you'd not be sniffy at the idea of making a show, providing it would be done on your own terms. With the new ways of making films you mentioned in a more recent post, how long do you think it'll be before the filmaker making the most of dv, begin making tv shows, and making the most of the sheer scope available. Sure it'll be a job and a half getting them on mainstream tv, but with cable/digital and the interthingy there are as many outlets for no budget tv as there are for no-budget film. Of course the sheer prospect of creating, a series in this manner is an overwhelming and logistically nightmare, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. I think when folks start doing this we'll get closer to reaching the potential of audio and visual art forms.

The Twilight Zone and the Prisoner are both great examples of TV as art.

[SPACERACE]

TV will always be forced to cater to the lowest common denominator, as it's so integrated into society. not to say there aren't good shows, but what few there are are on cable, and fuck if i'm going to pay for that shit.

[DCDave]

TV will always be forced to cater to the lowest common denominator, as it's so integrated into society.

Right, like film and music.

Or, you know, not.

[SPACERACE]

there's no such thing as indie tv.

music and film would suck too if it were all 50 cent and XXX, all the time, and there were no alternatives.

[DCDave]

there's no such thing as indie tv.

music and film would suck too if it were all 50 cent and XXX, all the time, and there were no alternatives.

My digital cable and I will be disagreeing with you starting... now.

Do you not like HBO Original Series of sumfin?

[SPACERACE]

not to say there aren't good shows, but what few there are are on cable, and fuck if i'm going to pay for that shit.

[DCDave]

not to say there aren't good shows, but what few there are are on cable, and fuck if i'm going to pay for that shit.

So by TV, you meant network TV? Got it.

Yeah, you're right then.

[Wally]

This shit about TV being lesser art is the same shit lit snobs said about film back in the day.

In total agreement. I just don't think tv has reached it's potential yet, while film has occasionally come close. It could be argued that tv has much larger potential as a series can run and run, sprawling over a mass of time, we could actually see and feel characters/actors ageing feel them growing, developing, or withering and dying in a more truthful way.

Difficult, you said early on that you'd not be sniffy at the idea of making a show, providing it would be done on your own terms. With the new ways of making films you mentioned in a more recent post, how long do you think it'll be before the filmaker making the most of dv, begin making tv shows, and making the most of the sheer scope available. Sure it'll be a job and a half getting them on mainstream tv, but with cable/digital and the interthingy there are as many outlets for no budget tv as there are for no-budget film. Of course the sheer prospect of creating, a series in this manner is an overwhelming and logistically nightmare, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. I think when folks start doing this we'll get closer to reaching the potential of audio and visual art forms.

The Twilight Zone and the Prisoner are both great examples of TV as art.

Ack! Well I guess as ever my inarticulacy cripples me, I wasn't saying that no tv has been art just that it has a whole lot more potential which it has yet to develop.
Ack! I'll just go back to thinking about lovely tv boys.











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[crystalcakes]

there's no such thing as indie tv.

music and film would suck too if it were all 50 cent and XXX, all the time, and there were no alternatives.

I would call Trio indie tv.  I would also call it awesome for the most part.

[difficult]

'Cause obviously you know how many and what kind of films I've seen.

This shit about TV being lesser art is the same shit lit snobs said about film back in the day.

I can only go on the ones you've talked about dieblucas, and it wasn't meant to be such an aggressive statement towards you specifically. But my experience of films and TV is that :
(A) the films go a lot wider in scope, because they can
(B) there in not yet a real "independent" notion of TV (as you say Reese)
(C) Yeah,TV is pretty good at the moment

And
(D) I'm a curmudgeonly, mouthy bastard when people start challenging my chosen form.

I can only offer apologies for (D), but I was somewhat incoherently foaming at the mouth at the time - I ate one of Blake's pigeons.

Wally wrote:
 I just don't think tv has reached it's potential yet, while film has occasionally come close. It could be argued that tv has much larger potential as a series can run and run, sprawling over a mass of time, we could actually see and feel characters/actors ageing feel them growing, developing, or withering and dying in a more truthful way.

Difficult, you said early on that you'd not be sniffy at the idea of making a show, providing it would be done on your own terms. With the new ways of making films you mentioned in a more recent post, how long do you think it'll be before the filmaker making the most of dv, begin making tv shows, and making the most of the sheer scope available. Sure it'll be a job and a half getting them on mainstream tv, but with cable/digital and the interthingy there are as many outlets for no budget tv as there are for no-budget film. Of course the sheer prospect of creating, a series in this manner is an overwhelming and logistically nightmare, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. I think when folks start doing this we'll get closer to reaching the potential of audio and visual art forms.

I've been enjoying what you've been saying here and in the other big long one -  and you're generally right about most of this stuff, and should be less tentative about that sometimes too - I like what you're saying here much more than about TV actors and the ir pictures.

For me, the logistics of creating a decent series are not that difficult really. Making stuff about is cheap as anything, really. The biggest issue is finding someone to play it. But, yes, you're right otherwise, and this is some of the future, and it's a good time to be having a wee renaissance in the quality of  TV, and audience interest in watching serious stuff.

[difficult]

TV will always be forced to cater to the lowest common denominator, as it's so integrated into society. not to say there aren't good shows, but what few there are are on cable, and fuck if i'm going to pay for that shit.

And another thing from this is that we now have two competing pay-based delivery systems for better TV - cable and DVD. How does this change the way it works? Which one prevails? Is there room for both, in terms of producing niche product (Which's almost by definition anything good, and a lot of crap too)? There may be in a market the size of the States, there almost certainly isn't somewhere like NZ....

[DCDave]

TV will always be forced to cater to the lowest common denominator, as it's so integrated into society. not to say there aren't good shows, but what few there are are on cable, and fuck if i'm going to pay for that shit.

And another thing from this is that we now have two competing pay-based delivery systems for better TV - cable and DVD. How does this change the way it works? Which one prevails? Is there room for both, in terms of producing niche product (Which's almost by definition anything good, and a lot of crap too)? There may be in a market the size of the States, there almost certainly isn't somewhere like NZ....

Just watch American and British shows then. They're brilliant and it's not like we're speaking a foreign tongue.

[difficult]

TV will always be forced to cater to the lowest common denominator, as it's so integrated into society. not to say there aren't good shows, but what few there are are on cable, and fuck if i'm going to pay for that shit.

And another thing from this is that we now have two competing pay-based delivery systems for better TV - cable and DVD. How does this change the way it works? Which one prevails? Is there room for both, in terms of producing niche product (Which's almost by definition anything good, and a lot of crap too)? There may be in a market the size of the States, there almost certainly isn't somewhere like NZ....

Just watch American and British shows then. They're brilliant and it's not like we're speaking a foreign tongue.

Well actually, sometimes you are, you know?
But that's not what I mean - and even within that, what I'm talking about is the access to some of those anyway. The bigger ones get here quite readily, the smaller ones sometimes, or don't for years or in incomplete form. I'm also more talking in terms of the above post, and Wally's comments about producing niche TV. In NZ we have a smaller market for TV,  film and DVD, and some elements of it are regulated in odd ways. Local TV is even more negligible than local film, because of the lack of a proper indie sector in TV. A smaller market obviously has less room for variation anyway, and that's what happens here.
As the possibilities for TV become wider, the process of choosing becomes more important in a market like NZ, partly because for the consumer, a lot of the choices are not available to you.
I guess I was just wanting to think about the possibilities for the medium, and how some of the more interesting ideas might actually be able to operate.
I mean, I am operating under the assumption that no-one here actually thinks that TV is in good shape anywhere, just that it's in better shape than it has been in years.

[Nicholson]

You know, I would say that in many ways, the HBO stuff is overrated.

Obviously, I like some of it- I like the Wire a lot, although I think it pales in comparison to The Prisoner or Twin Peaks, but even that show is visually not too interesting in terms of shot composition or cinematography.

The shows I name are generally pretty visually expressive, in a way that most TV is uninterested in matching. HBO stuff just looks ass. Fox stuff sometimes cares about the visual aspect, but in this way that I just think falls off into empty slickness.

Oh wait- Stella had good cinematography. (It actually looked much better than the movie Wet Hot American Summer.) Actually, that show looked great, and was much better than the more-free-rein online shorts. But that suffered for the constant interjections of commercials. And it's probably not going to come back for a second season, or even get a DVD release.

There was a time when I preferred TV to film, but that was when I was younger and had conservative parents and so I was left unexposed to films that were actually good, all my film options were generic. TV won out for being free and having comedies- In many ways, still, TV is the better venue for comedies. (Did any of you see Larry David's movie, Sour Grapes? What a horrible piece of shit.)

Meanwhile, in terms of TV- I've mentioned this elsewhere, but one of my favorite shows ever is Home Movies. Brendon Small, the voice of the character Brendon Small, is creating a new cartoon for Adult Swim about Scandinavian death metal, where the characters are mostly incoherent and murders are committed. He's also serving as a consultant for the movie adaptation of Lords Of Chaos, which I think is rad.

I obviously have different tastes in television than this thread concerns itself with, so I'll see myself out.

[Wally]

God there are some snobs here.

[difficult]

Hey, quantify there, Trout boy!

[FreddyKnuckles]

I think those to jacked your double-dong wally.

[Nicholson]

I assume Wally's comment is directed towards me.

Yeah I guess it is pretty snobby to want art that's done in a visual medium to look good.

[difficult]

I don't know Nicholson, I thought it was a moderately reasonable request myself...

[Nicholson]

Well you're obviously a snob, difficult, gawwwwd.

[FreddyKnuckles]

Cause Nicholson has such great taste:

I once made a list that was like

1. Velvet Underground - Sweet Jane
2-9. songs off In The Aeroplane Over The Sea
10. Pixies - Debaser

so open-minded too.