Who actually believes in John Kerry?

[johnzo]

Why vote for Kerry?

It's the Supreme Court, man.  You can't look at Bush & Kerry and not see a difference when it comes to Supreme Court nominations.  How much could a bench full of Scalias and Thomases fuck up this country in years to come?

Plus, Kerry will act as a speedbrake on a Congress that's run by sleazoid right-wing fucktards.  (that's probably not a realistic appraisal, given Clinton's example, but I'm hopeful.)

zo.

[jebreject]

"fucktards" is a great word.

[cold before sunrise]

why bother voting? seriously though.

[Andrew_TSKS]

i think that question has been answered in many different ways already in this thread. people may not have given answers you found satisfactory, but all they can really do is give answers that THEY have found satisfactory. your inability to find those answers as satisfactory as the people who've given them in no way justifies asking the question again, as if it hasn't been asked before.

[mackro]

voting lets politicians know that their status/tenure can change.  If only people of a certain demographic voted, politicians will only pander to that demographic, and their own interests.  If most people in this country voted, politicians would be under far more scrutiny in general, no matter their political affiliation.

Seems kinda obvious to me.

(And there will never be a situation where "nobody" votes, so all you nihilistic idealists out there can relax)

[cold before sunrise]

when was the last time the american public had any direct involvement in how the cuntry was operated? seriously. fuck the system and this voting noise. fuck john kerry up the pooper and fuck the ridiculous facade masquerading as democracy.

[mackro]

well, uh, move then.  Have fun.

[mackro]

(..or become a politician, if you want to be directly involved.   Quickest way to do that, I hear, is to become a charismatic tough-guy hollywood actor and be schmoozy.)

[stephanie]

Dude!  Fuck the man!  For serious, you know how we're gonna change things?  We are going to WHINE.  ALL.  NITE.  LONG.
Also, maintaining an attitude of stubborn, outright dismissal regarding the "system" (Zach de la Rocha alert!) we're all so convinced needs to be different is a most excellent plan of action.
Me? I'm just gonna kick back on my couch with the latest Chomsky screed and pump my fist safely in the confines of my own apartment.  Damn, it's good to be an American.  I mean, it's shitty to be an American!  America is the worst ever!

Complaining about how out-of-touch the government is with my anarcho-punk needs until next election, at which point I will just complain some more, I mean honestly, sweet lord, why do I live in a country with people like this?,
- Stephanie

p.s.  XO/Amen, mackro.

[cold before sunrise]

(< canadian girl)

i'll leave you to it.

[mackro]

Ah, so you live in a country where you have even less direct involvement in who gets to be PM.  Not hypocritical at all.

[mackro]

(Then again, maybe you hate Canada more than the U.S.  If so, I take that back)

[cold before sunrise]

my biggest complaint is the neighbourhood, but it's not too shabby. canada's basically like, communist (which is a good thing).

[mackro]

Hahahaha

tell that to all the Vancouverites who have to put up with Maui-boozin'-and-croozin' Liberal premier Gordon Campbell and his Social Program Slicing Dicing machine.

[Scott CE]

(< canadian girl)

i'll leave you to it.

Oh, ok, then I guess I agree that you should not vote in American elections.  Fuck that noise, indeed.

[mackro]

The Reform Party is like sooooo communist.  

(To those of you outside Canada, the Reform Party is basically the Canadian equivalent of the Pat Robertson Party in the U.S., but far more influential in the country as a whole.  Thankfully they don't rule any provinces in Canada... yet.. but still, I think that "communist" quote above needs some revising there)

[cold before sunrise]

gordon campbell would have never gotten into power if there wasn't an insurgence of 'vote for change' bullshit that has been steadily propelling the canadian holyland of bc straight into the ground ever since. i suppose you could call our interest in politics a certain morbid fascination.

mackro: communist as in the government leans more to investment in the interests of the community as a whole than being driven by capital like the capitalist united states. haha... you're also heavily in debt.

[Andrew_TSKS]

yeah, and we're heavily in debt almost completely due to the actions of george w. bush, who BARELY made it into office. voting definitely made a difference there, so by citing that statistic, you're actually undermining your own argument.

[mackro]

mackro: communist as in the government leans more to investment in the interests of the community as a whole than being driven by capital like the capitalist united states. haha... you're also heavily in debt.

newsflash:  the world is driven by capital, thanks to globalization.  The only thing that comes closest to communism in the world today is a total abuse of communism which is North Korea...(i.e. Stalinism... I won't bother inserting the history/differences of Stalinism vs. Leninism here)

Canada certainly has more socialist aspects than the U.S. (if that was the term you meant), certainly, but the use of the word "communism" colloquially is just insane if you're talking about either the U.S. or Canada.

And, yeah, pretty much what Andrew said.

[mackro]

And of course, not voting in B.C. is certainly going to help those who are trying to get Gordon Campbell out of office.  

Sure.

[cold before sunrise]

out of courtesy to the discussion i feel obliged to politely duck out of the conversation, being that it's dedicated to the passionate following of john kerry or lack thereof and apparently i'm neither justified in commenting on the politics of the looming party next door (casting a shadow across our lawn... so much for picnics in the sun.) or even my own.  

hey... guess what? it's great you posse are all gung-ho about delivering a boot in the behind to that cowboy you currently call a leader (the world is rooting for you!) but chances are it's not going to be enough to dislodge the outlaw redneck from the throne he swindled. get over it, things could be worse. besides, kerry's just a self-absorbed twat who's better at lying. at least with bush you know exactly what you're up against - w is so simplistic even the uneducated general populace can feel confident in criticizing their government (not a bad thing), and the guy's caught so much flack that he's under intense pressure to correct the havoc reeked. john kerry gets elected? everybody breathes a sigh of relief and stops paying attention again. george bush? at the very least we'll continue to be entertained and startled by the antics of a cokewild monkey wielding a scepter.

the difference between the usa and their buddies to the north is that up here we don't get wound up so easily and start acting all hysterical and stuff. canada chooses it's battles carefully and has never lost a single war, not really. maybe it's because canadians are better educated or just more happy and peaceful people in general, who's to say? what i do believe is that coins in your pocket don't mean shit if you don't have any friends and a) with a very few exceptions, the entire planet resents the united states due to it's selfish actions over the past century - it's certainly not the sole fault of bush, and b) if you're going to wander past your own backyard i'd suggest going in disguise by sewing a canadian flag to your backpack - you'll definately notice a difference in how warmly you're received virtually everywhere. just please don't make an ignorant ass of yourself while pretending to be from here like most american college kids doing the eurotrip thinger. that's not being arrogant or condescending or anything, it's looking out for your best interests as much as my own, because that's what friends are for.

ttfn...

[mackro]

wow.. that's about the snottiest most delusional thing I've ever read here.

For what it's worth, when I went abroad this past summer across the atlantic, i didn't have to pretend I was Canadian or anybody other than myself, and I was received by everyone just fine.

[mackro]

Funny anecdote, even being half Canadian myself....

A friend of mine in London was working at a bookstore, and two people come in -- with seemingly American accents --- starting a conversation about what the store has in stock, everyone's friendly enough, and the storekeeper then asks "So, where in the States do you live?"

The couple were furious, paused, and said... "We're..... CANADIAN!", put on really offended sour faces, and they stormed out the store.

...

Being hated and not being hated comes in all shades and backgrounds.

[crystalcakes]

i think voting comes down to taking advantage of your rights as a citizen in a representative republic.  the reason your individual vote seems to matter so little is because of the number of people choosing to bow out for whatever reason.  

the fact that only 30% of americans are registered republicans, yet almost 100% of that 30 show up to vote every single time, makes me want everyone to vote.  if the more liberal people in this country were more adamant about their cause instead of just whining or rolling over, it would be a much different place.

and al gore would be our president right now.

so if you think voting doesn't change enough, get out there and do more.  otherwise, shut up about it and move.

[jebreject]

so much to say, so little patience ...