How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Yankees.

[Scott CE]

So, I'm a Seattleite and a lifelong die hard Mariners fan.  But as a kid I was also a die hard Yankees fan (I even had a subscription to Yankee Magazine, with the farm report and urrythang).  Back then, there was no conflict of interest.  Both teams were crap (I grew up loving the Knicks along with the Sonics for similarly inexplicable reasons).  Sure, one had an illustrious history, which is how I became enamored with them, but they were both still awful (OK, to be fair, sometimes the Yankees were OK during that span).  I'm talking about the mid to late 80s and early 90s here--I mean, between the two teams, I suffered through years of Phil Bradley, Billy Martin, Jim Lefebver, Stump Merrill, Don Slaught, etc.  And those were the highlights.

Then 95 came around, the Ms made the postseason for the first time, and there was a conflict for the first time.  So I did what any rationale Seattleite would do.  I started hating the Yankees.  Then they got great and I started hating them even more.  Then they got David Justice and I started hating them even MORE.  By the time the bottom of the 9th, game 7, 2001 came around, my hate was at it's peak, and that hit by Luis Gonzalez was one of the Sports Highlights of my life.

By the time Boone hit his home run last year, though, my hate was on the wane.  Perhaps a couple of years off of winning had softened my rage at them, and when Boone launched that ball, I just had to chuckle (disclosure: I did not and still do not like the Sawx--how could I?).  It was unbelievable.

Watching tonight's game, and yes, I was still pullling for the Twins, I realized really just how much it means to me to watch games at Yankee Stadium in the postseason.  It's just electric.  There really is nothing like it.  When that game went into extra innings, was there anyone on the planet who thought the Yankees were going to lose (outside of MN)?  

Am I pulling for the Yankees?  No, I guess I can't say that I am.  But after switching over to the Angels/Sawx game tonight, the distinction became so clear to me.  It's just not as fun to watch.  I'd still rather watch a post-season game broadcast from Yankee Stadium than anywhere else in the world (not including Safeco, of course).  It's just become part of the fall to me, and as much as I have been rooting so hard against the SOBs for 8 years, I'd sorely miss those pinstripes if they weren't in the post-season.  Isn't the light at Yankee Stadium different somehow?  It sure seems to be.

I realize that if the Mariners were playing the Yankees in the post-season now, I'd probably be singing a different tune, and you Twins and Sawx fans are of course free to curse me out over this.  But since my boys are sitting at home with 99 losses under their belts, I'm feeling kinda mellow and can actually say I smiled when Matsui drove in that run (though I also smiled when Torii Hunter hit that HR).  It's just part of October.

[Keith from TTIKTDA]

LETS GO YANKEEES!!!!

[Lalitree]

[woejilli]

MODZ PLEAZE BAN KTHXBYE!

[Keith from TTIKTDA]

y'alls just jealous.

[Tad]

benign ambivalence towards the Yankees is something I could neither accomplish, nor strive towards.  It's genetic.

[Scott CE]

Is hating the Yankees playa-hatin in its most distilled form?

I think it is.  People hate the Yankees because they are good at what they do.  Period.  They are the best at the game.  

In fact, I think Jeter's plate music should be Big Pun's "Still Not a Playa"

[Keith from TTIKTDA]

ESPN-caster last night was noting that Ron Gardenhire made a point of downloading Ruben Sierras plate music before the game. He wanted to listen to it on the trip back to Minnesota.

[Tad]

I have this suspicion that hatin on the Yankees is not universally reducible to their winning tradition.

[Scott CE]

So what is it about, then?  What would be the point of hating them if they were bad?

I mean, I understand if you are from Baltimore or Boston or something where you are always in competition, sure, your hatred of the Yankees is as much about divisional rivalries as anything else.

But as for the nation-wide prevasive hatin that goes on, what else could it be about?  The money?  That's just another form of hatin on a team for winning (and besides, there are plenty of teams with big payrolls that are terrible, no one seems to hate them).

[Tad]

in my experience, (growing up in a staunchly Red Sox-supporting household) that is certainly a part.  That sort of precludes me from the discussion, but regardless, I have never (though I've only been alive for a short while when compared to the Yankee dynasty) liked a Yankees player.  This occurred before I realized what it meant to dislike the Yankees, and the necessary baggage that comes with that.  Don Mattingly, Steve Sax, Dave Righetti, Dave Winfield, ...ad infinitum (I really disliked Steve Sax for some reason).  They have never appealed to me, perhaps this is on a personal level influenced currently by my intense dislike of the Yankees but in the formative years I'd argue that this stemmed from a active disinterest in Yankee players.  

This, coupled with the overbearing Yankees fans with whom I grew up (in Western New York state) led me to swear off ambivalence towards to the Yankees for the indefinite future.  

Yes, hatin on the Yankees is in part owed to their great success because as you've mentioned the phenomenon would not exist on the same level without that aspect, however it's not the only reason and for many people it's very likely inextricably linked with certain other aspects.  Sure, the Yankees play hard, sure many of them are incredibly talented, but there is a near Calvin-like sense of entitlement/predestiny that rubs me the wrong way.  The fans I grew up with cultivated this attitude without actually ever discussing baseball, or knowing anything about baseball which is perhaps the most frustrating thing of all.  Talent, and a tradition of winning do not have to result in feelings of entitlement.  Is entitlement a part of playa hatin?  It may well be, I'm uncertain.  Either way, I think the sense of entitlement to which I've borne witness something that transcends playa hatin, or jealousy.  

I guess my point is, that it's not necessarily about any one, isolated thing.  If it is, and for many people it may be, then certainly it's playa hatin distilled over the course of a century.  But in some cases, and I'm working under the assumption that I'm not alone in feeling this way, it's unfair to simply focus upon the issue of success and leave it at that.  

Now I sound like John Kerry.  There are better/other reasons but I've exceeded my allotted word limit.

[jebreject]

I embrace my playa hation.

[Scott CE]

This, coupled with the overbearing Yankees fans with whom I grew up

Yeah, those Red Sox fans are always reasonable and never overbearing.

I hear what you are saying about other reasons, Tad (though I don't get this hating all Yankees players independent of hating the Yankees thing), but I think the DRIVING force behind the general hate (and the general love, for that matter, as there are plenty of Yankees fans outside NY) is not just the success but the dramatic and repeated success.  And as for hate-ability, are you really going to try to tell me there is anything even remotely hate-able about Joe Torre?  Even at my peak, I couldn't honestly make a case for that.

And as for a sense of entitlement, is there anything worse than all these red sox fans who whine about how they deserve a world series and how horribly cursed they are?  Frankly, I am rooting for them to win just so they'll shut up about it already.  Those poor Boston sports fans, what with them only having championships in three of the four major team sports and currently having one of the best football teams ever.  Boo hoo.

[Tad]

Not having grown up in Red Sox world I've been able to sidestep the griping of many Red Sox fans, yet have had no luck avoiding Yankees fans.  That might explain it, and that's not meant to characterize all of the fans, just the ones I knew fairly well.  

You know, I never really liked Joe Torre.  Honestly.  I don't hate him at all, I just have this vague sense of frustration directed towards him.  Though several weeks ago during a game against the Orioles he certainly grated on my nerves.  At four in the afternoon, in the beginning of the top half of the eighth inning (I believe) he requested that the lights be turned on.  Of course, the game was stalled for twenty minutes while the lights started up.  There may have been completely legitimate reasons for doing so, I just didn't see them.  

I guess I meant predestination moreso than entitlement, hence the Calvinist bent.  The feeling that their grace, their predestiny is made manifest through the repeated success.  I can't abide that.

[WhereTheSlimeLive]

I think if the sox lose again this year, it's going to be much less sour then usuall around these Boston parts.  After last years lost to the yankee, people were just crushed.  My englishteacher didn't come in for 2 days because of it...., people were just straight up pissed.

[Scott CE]

My englishteacher didn't come in for 2 days because of it....,

hahaha, now THAT is some perspective on life.

[WhereTheSlimeLive]

Before he started working at my school, he worked at Fenway since he was 17.  He was our baseball coach for the longest time, and had this very ellaborate shirne built in his room for the sox.  I was scared to face his rath the next day, good thing he took those 2 days off, I might of failed the year.

[jaimoe0]

I attribute my hatred of the Yankees more to being a "homer" than anything else.  For me, having lived in the same part of the country my entire life, my feelings about sports have been shaped entirely by geography.  While I might hate the Yankees more than the Cubs, because the Yankees keep doing well, for instance, I do indeed hate them both, and it's always been difficult for me to understand how some fans develop a love for a team they've never lived with or near. Because of the way my fandom has developed, in the cocoon of the Bay Area, it's difficult for me to understand how someone not originally from or currently residing in New York could possibly love the Yankees. But I also understand that it's a mistake to project my own regionalism on others.

[jebreject]

how can anyone hate the cubs?

but i hear you.  it's just like i like the twins over the brewers, even though i live in milwaukee now.

[jaimoe0]

how can anyone hate the cubs?

There have been seasons where the Cubs have played spoiler to Giants post season hopes.  When it comes to sports, I holds me a grudge.  In all other things I am a font of compassion and forgiveness.

[Andrew_TSKS]

I think Jeter's plate music should be Big Pun's "Still Not a Playa"

ESPN-caster last night was noting that Ron Gardenhire made a point of downloading Ruben Sierras plate music before the game. He wanted to listen to it on the trip back to Minnesota.

wait wait, hold the phone, PLATE MUSIC? is this for real?

good god, man, is this baseball or pro wrestling we're talking about here?

[polkadotchickens]

i find it interesting how impossible it is to find a person who cares about baseball who doesn't have an opinion on the yankees.  you either hate 'em or you love 'em, and you do either regardless of where you live.  me, i hate 'em, but everyone's already explained any reasons i might claim as my own for hating them.  i do have to tip my hat to the yankees, however, for managing to cultivate such a universal appeal/unappeal...what other sports team has ever had such a following/unfollowing?

i would like to comment, however, that last week i passed a kid on the street  here in la serena, chile wearing a yankees hat.  chile.  chile!  rahhr.  though i realize it probably has more to do with the world's worship of american culture than it does with the yankees, it still made me grind my teeth.

[Scott CE]

Yeah, I think Manchester United probably is in the same league and probably surpasses the Yankees in terms of worldwide inspiration of hate/love.

The only other things that come close here in the states are:

LA Lakers
Dallas Cowboys
Duke Basketball
Notre Dame Football

[Keith from TTIKTDA]

That schoolteacher anecdote reminds me of an old professor I had. The class was Media Criticism, and he devoted a days lecture to sports coverage. His method of doing so was to show us the final period of the final game of the Rangers Stanley Cup Championship in 1994.

He talked over the video, howling with indignation at the heroic low angle shots, pointing out the absurdity and rediculousness of it all.

At the end of the class, he passed around the tape.

It was labelled "Now I can Die In Peace"

And Andrew - yes, Plate music. It's the logical extension from relievers having their own music, which has been the case for years (i.e. Mariano Rivera & "Enter Sandman")