KRAUTROCK/KOSMISCHE

[Roque]

Are there Krautrockers among you? What are your favorite albums? Then what are your favorite non-Can/Neu!/Faust albums?? Did Tangerine Dream shame the microgenre for all eternity? Let me leave you with a favorite quote of mine from some of the gentlemen from Amon D/o/ol, Munich, c. 1967:

Wir sind elf Erwachsene und zwei Kinder und haben uns entschlossen, alles gemeinsam zu machen, auch die Musik!

Or

We are eleven adults and two children who are gathered to make all kinds of expressions, also musical!

Also musical, indeed.

/////

[jebreject]

Neu! is fantastic.  I have the first and second Neu! albums and rock them as much as possible.

[wordsofglass]

Deutscher HipHop.

Don't know if it's quite "Krautrock" but it's kraut something.

Fettes Brot, Fantastischen Vier, and Seeed, yess SEEEEED. These guys sound like Jamaican reggae/rap sung in german. It confused bewilders and astonds upon the first listen, which grows to humorous satisfaction, which turn to actually kinda liking this stuff in its own right. I'm not sure if there's a whole group of 'german jamaicans, with twisted faces' (as tricky refers to them) in existance somewhere, but man this Kraut-Rap is fun.

[Andrew_TSKS]

i don't know much about krautrock. i like the can stuff i have (i've been into them for a long time), but i've heard very little faust. i have the second and third neu! albums, and they are good, but vary in quality from song to song, i think. also, i have an amon duul record called "psychedelic underground", i think. it's pretty fucked up.

oh, and i have a reissue on vinyl of the cro-magnon 12" on esp-disk, which i think came out in 1968. does that count? it's sorta like krautrock crossed with insane caveman music or something.

[justinh]

german hip hop is the worst thing ever.  in berlin they make you listen to it when you're riding the u-bahn.  it's aural torture.  i mean, some of it might be good, but not the stuff that's actually popular in germany.  there seems to be a lot of turkish people into hip hop there.  

i like the normal neu!, can (mostly just future days), faust (mostly just IV, but i've only heard that one and the bbc sessions or something like that), and kraftwerk (mostly just autobahn...but i haven't heard trans-european express and i like listening to the man-machine on occasion).  i like some of the newer german bands like the notwist and schnedier tm.  

i have yet to meet any german people who actually listen to krautrock.  even the borderline music nerd people i met seemed to listen mostly to american bands.

[mackro]

Woohoo!  Minor soapbox time!

Actually my favorite krautrock is the stuff that bridged the late 60s/early 70s "prog" camp and the dawn of early industrial dance music.. i.e. Deutsch Amerikanische Freundschaft, Einsterzende Neubauten, etc.  These bands are such a clear connection between Neu!/Kraftwerk and, say, Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, etc. ("gothic disco").  I'm not dismissing the influences of Cabaret Voltaire or Throbbing Gristle on the latter of course.. just stating that "krautrock" is a more flexible term than one might think.

That said, I certainly haven't listened to enough Faust, but I certainly like parts of the 71 Minutes Of... release... and surely I would enjoy the surrounding releases.

* Best Can album : it depends.  Two months ago is was Landing if, for anything, the excellent serene finale "Untitled". Now I've have to go back to my standby that is Monster Movie.  With all respect to Damo Suzuki, Malcolm Mooney is the absolute shit, and doesn't deserve to be overshadowed by the former, as genius and iconic Suzuki is.  Even though the album is four songs, they are four solid, solid songs.  I'll only admit getting tired of "You Doo Right" more than the others, but this is just because of logistics... the song is 20 minutes long.

* Best Can song: "Turtles Have Short Legs".  This will never change.  This is possibly the best 70s pop song ever.  And yes, even the fact that it was appropriated in the "Step.. On..Da..Gas!" section of the console game Parappa The Rapper has not, even by a crumb, diminished my love for this song (not that video game appropriation is a bad thing in my opinion, but somehow, many are "bothered" by "Turtles Have Short Legs" because it reminds them of "that damn video game with the annoying driving teacher".  People can be too dour sometimes.)  Anyway, the track has a great break beat, great chorus, great bass line, great guitar work (which is rare proof that Michael Karoli -- R.I.P. -- could easily swing being a guitarist with great hooks as well as being more experimental)

* Best Neu! album: Neu! '75.  Actually all three of them are pure genius, and it's hard to pick one.  Neu! has the most heart-wrenching ending and the classic pick-me-up morning anthem "Hallogallo".  Neu! 2 has the best single first half (or "side" for those of you who, like, have vinyl or cassettes and stuff) of a Neu! release of all of them...(more on that later.)  Starting off with the even more fueled pick-me-up "Fur Immer" and then progressing towards the darker and damn frightening teutonic scorcha "Lila Angel" makes Neu! 2 sound like it's about to make Earth implode.  Sadly, the alleged lack of funds for this record destroys the momentum in no time, as they just take their single "Super/Neuschnee" and just play around with it on various speeds to fill out the second half.  If they were allowed to release the first half as an EP and forgo making this a full album, this would have been the greatest Neu! release by far.  But, ultimately, that honor now must goes to Neu! 75, mainly because of its diversity, its elegance, its excellent song writing, its transitions.... its entire experience.  Many will cull "Hallogallo" as "the song Stereolab ripped off", but truly, it is "Isi".. what with the prettiness, similar beat, moist synth layers, and piano.  "Hero" and "After Eight" prove that the band could rock and rock well even after that "long" hiatus of two years after the last one.  "Seeland" and "E-Musik" prove the band could channel Eno, and possible outdo him at moments.  As far as the notion of the "first three are brilliant" is concerned, Neu! '75 is the perfect cap.

* Best Neu! song -- it's a hard choice, but they are both on the excellent first half of Neu! 2.  While "Lila Angel" can still frighten children and adults at unsuspecting moments and sound very "today" -- a remarkable feat for a record from 1972 -- I'll have to go with "Fur Immer (Forever)".  It's basically an improved "Hallogallo".  No subtle, sparse wah-wah alas... just straight-up motorik rock foundation.  The breaks in the drums, and the buildups to even sonic one-chord bliss are what make this track special.  I could listen to it for the rest of my life.  If I could live forever, and record a song forever, this would be the song I'd jam out.

Other Krautrock goodness?

The first three Amon Duul II albums, Phallus Dei, Yeti, and Tanz Der Lemminge are my favorite krautrock records of all time.  Ultimately, my favorite of the three is the last one there.. Tanz Der Lemminge.  Without a doubt, Amon Duul II's best moments are on Yeti, and had they done some editing, this would have easily been their best record.  But the band overcompensated by providing a second half that is all improv... and there's nothing wrong with improv, nor is there anything bad about the particular improv tracks on Yeti.  They are fine, guitar-feedback-laden soundscapes.  But for an "album" to work for me, sequencing is very important, as is editing.  And that second half of Yeti really derails the sonic rock highs of the first half.  Basically, Yeti begins like it rules the universe, then retreats and becomes self-indulgent.

Tanz Der Lemminge, on the other hand, begins subtely and without fanfare, but it just builds and builds and builds, and each song or opus part not only segues brilliantly from the previous, but often outdoes it.  Overall, the material is just as strong as its predecessor, but it is sooo well sequenced and organized -- all "prog" comparisons be damned -- that it pretty much makes the leap from "album" to "experience".  It's also their transitional album (their next two records would be alright, but the band would become non-interesting soon after), which, to its advantage, allowed the band to showcase where they came from and where they were going at once.  The collision of the two styles and how well they integrated are what make Tanz Der Lemminge.  (A total side note, but it's worth noting that there is one micro-part of this record where Chris Karrer's singing eerily predicts the timbre of the underrated and loved Allen Callaci of Refrigerator.)

Though not strictly krautrock, Gong were certainly of the same camp.  (At least, when Daevid Allen was in the band in the early days, they were technically a French group with, I believe, connections in Australia and England.)  Camembert Electrique and Flying Teapot are highly recommended records for those of you who want to explore the weird and proto-prog peers of the above.

Guru Guru should not be ignored either. I find their most hailed album, their debut UFO, to be overrated.  It's a good album, but its dark feedback-ish guitar drones don't hold my interest for successive listens.  Their next two records, Hinten and, especially, Kanguru are far more fun -- yes, more "rock" in a traditional way -- actually providing some foundation for "spaz rock", given the band's really strange sense of humor.  If I had to choose one, it would be Kanguru, because of its variety.  Also, there's an excellent funk break somewhere on the album that I WILL USE BEFORE ANYBODY HAW HAW HAW...(for what purposes, that's up to you to guess.)   (And yes, the Kanguru album cover was certainly coopted by Pavement for Wowee Zowee's album cover design.  I only mention this, because I knew somewhere here would mention it, and I want to be mean and rain on that person's parade and make a preemptive strike... HAW HAW HAW HEE HEE HEE.)

[mackro]

There was also this minor band named Kraftwerk, too, I should mention.

Kraftwerk, Kraftwerk 2, and Ralf Und Florian are three excellent records that will hope see the light of official reissues soon (and I'm actually holding out a candle for that event this time.  I'm noticing as musicians get older, they tend to loosen up, as far as exposing even what they consider the more amateur roots of their oevre.)

I am far too tired right now to elaborate too deeply on the three records right now, but I'll give each a few words:

Kraftwerk : do anything you can to get this record.  "Ruckzuck" = classic.  Also used on PBS show Newton's Apple.  The final track has the best comedown and the funkiest ending buildup ever.

Kraftwerk 2: About 70% of Thrill Jockey's roster, early Tortoise included, has pretty much been done already on this record.  A much more subtle, darker, moodier, chilling record than its predecessor, despite the similarity in album covers.

Ralf Und Florian: very pleasant all the way through.  Nothing here is jaw-dropping, but makes a good transition to what Kraftwerk "currently" "officially" considers their "first" album, Autobahn.

[mackro]

OK,I promise, last one here...

first Ash Ra Tempel album...   guitar soundscape genius.

Also New Age Of Earth, for completely different reasons:  foundation of modern electronic ambient/chill music.  Also contains the coolest ass photo of Manuel GottSching and his female protege in the cover art.

(Not into E2-E4.. gave it a chance.  Too repetitive even for Ash Ra)[/i]

[pm]

I'm currently wading through the CAN DVD.  

I had mentioned over on the the metal topic that I recently picked up this album Cosmos by Zombi -- think Goblin (like really think Goblin) or maybe Phaedra-style Tangerine Dream (if -- and that's a big "if" -- they did ruin Krautrock, it was long after this pretty much flawless album) in a more menacing, more muscular vein.  So far, I like it very much.

Otherwise, I love, love, love me some CAN.  Neu.  Guru.  I was actually listening to Faust "So Far" when I noticed this post in the first place.  Amon D/o/ol II "Yeti."  As an aside, I recently found Amon D/o/ol's "10th Pyragony" for a couple of bucks on vinyl.  Not to dismiss it out of hand, but yowzers -- that is one rude awakening.
 
Any Magma fans?

[Roque]

Mackro, that was an outstanding series of posts; being a fellow Krautrock fan & a fellow Washingtonian, you're (at least) double-cool. Oh yes, a lot does begin to slide up against each other--in more ways than one--in the gothic disco, industrial, post-punk, and Krautrock territories.

Quickly: You're one of the few I've come across who pick Neu! '75 as the best, but you've forced me to reconsider my take on the Neu! corpus.    I'm glad to say I have no first-hand experience with Parappa, only exposure to a commercial.    If there's one Faust album to begin with, perhaps to end with, it's Faust IV.    Are people consciously avoiding Ege Bamyasi and Tago Mago?     Cluster should not go unmentioned. Harmonia and Zuckerziet being the essentials?  It's hard to say. Speaking of Harmonia, how about Harmonia?! Deluxe is glorious.     I agree 100% about Kan-guru. UFO is absurdly overrated, imo.     And yes, "Kraftwerk" kinda rings a bell.      Let's see how long we can go without mentioning a certain tragic oneiric citrus ...


/////, Magma fan!


Will the Dear Leader of LPTJ weigh on once more on Ashra? Time will tell ...

[pm]

Does anyone have a favorite Popul Vuh album?  

I'm familiar with the Aguirre soundtrack and think it's pretty great, but if I have a Krautrock blindspot it's Popul Vuh.

Also, anyone can feel free to rename their band "Krautrock Blindspot."

[mackro]

being a fellow Krautrock fan & a fellow Washingtonian, you're (at least) double-cool.

Coolcool!    (although I admit being confused, as you state your location as Cambridge, Mass)

[swilkes]

Does anyone have a favorite Popul Vuh album?  

I'm familiar with the Aguirre soundtrack and think it's pretty great, but if I have a Krautrock blindspot it's Popul Vuh.

All I have is the Nosferatu soundtrack. Which brings me to the question I was planning on posing in this sub-forum: What exactly are the parameters of "Krautrock," other than the artists' common nationality? I personally see no bridge between Popol Vuh and, say, Kraftwerk.  I'm actually unfamiliar with this whole genre, except that I happen to like Herzog's movies, and I happened to have a pulse in the '80s* so I know about Kraftwerk.  

I've never been to Germany, so I'm stuck wondering what they think over there of our term "Krautrock."  I mean,  yeah there's "J-Pop," but that doesn't include a WWII ethnic slur.  I mean, *I* think it's funny, maybe *you* think it's funny, but do *they* think it's funny?  Is this a topic for the "politics" thread?

*yes, I know they started in the early 70s, but I was pulseless then.

[agnamaracs]

"Ruckzuck" = classic.  Also used on PBS show Newton's Apple.

I thought "Ruckzuck" sounded naggingly familiar!

As for the rest of the genre, I like it, though all I have are "Tago Mago" and "Ege Bamyasi." I've been meaning to pick up way more (the Neu! albums, at the very least), but due to a combination of unavailability, prohibitive pricing, and plain old ignorance on my part, I haven't yet...

Oh, and for the record:

I've never been to Germany, so I'm stuck wondering what they think over there of our term "Krautrock."

Well, the Germans kinda invented that term... it was the name of the first track on "Faust IV."

[Tad]

If there's one Faust album to begin with, perhaps to end with, it's Faust IV.

I believe what Roque meant to type in this space (if you'll permit me some latitude), is that if there's one Faust album to begin with, it is Faust IV andtheWummeYearsboxset.  Just a slight oversight.  But I've been known to fawn over Faust more than most reasonable people...



I also don't quite grasp this quoting function, if someone could explain to me why when I quote it appears differently than whenever other people quote.

[agnamaracs]

I also don't quite grasp this quoting function, if someone could explain to me why when I quote it appears differently than whenever other people quote.

If by that, you mean that yours just says "Quote" while other people's quotes say "_____ wrote," it's because they're doing one of two things:

1. Clicking the "Reply with Quote" button above posts;
2. Using (quote="Someone") instead of just (quote). (replace parentheses with square brackets!)

Demonstration:

(quote="Ford Prefect")Earth: Mostly harmless.(/quote)

Earth: Mostly harmless.

I hope that helps.

[Tad]

I hope that helps.

I am forever obliged.  And, I'm partial to Ege Bamyasi.  After reading Morvern Callar, I have sworn to myself that I will systematically work my way through the Malcolm Mooney years, even if it takes me several hours.  Thus far my only Can experience is with Damo Suzuki.

[mackro]

Well, thankfully, you don't have to drop a lot of dough to go through the Malcolm Mooney years.. there's only two full albums: Monster Movie and Can Delay 1968 (often another contender for my favorite Can record).  

However, Soundtracks is a key release, if for anything, being the literal transition between Mooney and Suzuki.  It's not a proper album, per se.  It is what it is... soundtrack music the band has done for films at the time.  Somewhere along the way during this period, they switched frontmen.  Hence, you have Damo's dazzling epic debut on "Mother Sky" combined with Can's greatest Mooney track "She Brings The Rain".. as well as some great instrumental tracks.

Also overlooked, but usually easy to find cheap and used: Unlimited Edition.  It's basically the budget dog's breakfast outtakes CD for Can.  It does contain some of Mooney's greatest appearances, like on "Connection", "The Empress And The Ukraine King", and "Mother Upduff".  You also get some weird Damo appearances and many of the "Ethnological Forgery Series" tracks.

And I think there's a short Mooney outtake on Cannibalism 2 (which is also the only way to get the excellent albeit Damo-sung "Turtles Have Short Legs"!!)

There.  All the Mooney you ever wanted.

[saint_arkansas]

Are people consciously avoiding Ege Bamyasi and Tago Mago?

Hi, this is my first post. I thought it'd be a good chance to say that Tago Mago is my all time favorite album. Should I go into the reasons? I think there is no more perfect example of a band operating as one solid piece, one musical entity, while at the same time sounding totally seperate and distinct. Also, a bunch of other crap. I love it, is the point.