New piece up 6/1: Op-Ed

[John]

Has nothing to do with music. However, the link in the first graf will take you to an awesome mantra chant on a loop, and the last one will take you to some bitchin' comedy-grind that I'm loving right now.

[jebreject]

DUDE FOETOPSY, HOLY SHIT

I KNOW THOSE GUYS

MILWAUKEE WHUT

Heh, sorry.

I liked the piece, John, but I'm not really sure what there is to say about it!  Other than that you are DEFINITELY undermining your marriage when you disagree with L-Dogg about the oven door.

[jebreject]

I think the rift in the current Republican Party is pretty interesting though--it's a splintering of considerable magnitude, and if the neocons don't do some major repair work by '08, they're going to lose some major supporters--the evangelicals, and a good number of the working class, rank-and-file conservatives.  I mean, it could be that the neocons just don't really care, and feel they don't need this particular support--and I fear they may actually be right--or maybe they're gearing up for something else entirely.  Whatever the case, the Dems have a pretty major opportunity right now, and in true Dem fashion aren't gonna do a goddamn thing with it.

[John]

oh yeah they're already showin' signs that the party mach '07 just ain't ready to come to the ball yet

[Wally]

Do people think Ron Paul should be given any credit?

[John]

to put it bluntly, no

[dieblucasdie]

Do people think Ron Paul should be given any credit?

Nah, I'll take the Goldwater-conservatives over the libertarian-conservatives any day.

The devil you know, etc.  Especially considering what a dude like him would do with education in this country.

If Thompson gets the nom, it'll be because of immigration, mark my words, almost everyone in the GOP leadership underestimates how much their base hates Mexicans.  And they think they hate Mexicans a lot.

[Wally]

not even for the amount of Ru Paul for president jokes that are going to be made over the next few months?

[John]

that base isn't really the base - the future conservative base IS Latino, as President Bush knows. It must be frustrating for him to not be able to say "by doing what I'm doing right now, I'm ensuring a G.O.P. majority for the 21st century" - but the base you're talking about, the high-profile donors & the online faithful, don't really grasp that. They've got this get-the-horse-back-into-the-barn thing goin'. If they manage to alienate Latino voters, it could conceivably be a great thing for the Democrats, but I feel confident that the Democratic Party will find a way to fuck that up too.

[dieblucasdie]

By base, I mean, "The 32% of people who still give Bush a favorable performance rating" despite all good-sense and still would if appointed Bin Laden VP and then shot himself.  

I'm not sure i buy that Latinos will stay conservative.  We're seeing a slow but steady shift away from the emphasis on "moral" issues on which they are conservative as a group.

[John]

By base, I mean, "The 32% of people who still give Bush a favorable performance rating" despite all good-sense and still would if appointed Bin Laden VP and then shot himself.

I'm not sure i buy that Latinos will stay conservative.  We're seeing a slow but steady shift away from the emphasis on "moral" issues on which they are conservative as a group.

yeah man the G.O.P. has successfully positioned itself as the party that believes in family, and no amount of catch-up can undo that. If you think that there's going to be a massive movement away from the Church in Latin American communities, then maybe, but the truth is that what's happening ecclesiastically in Latino America is exactly what's happening ecclesiastically in Latin America itself: if people leave the Church, it's only to join an even more conservative church (evangelicals).

lol I know you blucas are in hog heaven now that there's a politics discussion goin'

[dieblucasdie]

Oh I'm well aware; you should see the number of storefront Pentecostal churches up in the piece.  

OTOH Mexico just (effectively) legalized abortion.

1)  I just don't think it's as cut-and-dried as "they're religious, so they'll vote GOP."

2)  I think you're underestimating people's desire to assimilate.  Those storefront churches will be empty in a generation, and that's when the Latino majority will be here.

[John]

Oh I'm well aware; you should see the number of storefront Pentecostal churches up in the piece.  

OTOH Mexico just (effectively) legalized abortion.

1)  I just don't think it's as cut-and-dried as "they're religious, so they'll vote GOP."

2)  I think you're underestimating people's desire to assimilate.  Those storefront churches will be empty in a generation, and that's when the Latino majority will be here.

No no, it's not "they're religious," it's what that religiosity indicates culturally. One thing social conservatives are right about is that the family as locus of American self & identity began to wither at some point during the 20th century (maybe the 19th). Much of the "preserve the family" talk that gets the GOP base goin' actually means "attempt to rescue the family from the dustbin of history." The importance of family to religion, however, remains. So "family" and "religion" are conflated in the G.O.P. message, mercilessly and relentlessly - and I would argue that there is no more important issue, throughout Latin American communities across the globe, than family. By making family reunification part of his potential legacy, Bush is doing something that Latino voters won't soon forget - the movements within Latin communities toward evangelical churches may be attributable in part to those churches successfully arguing that they will rep for the family when other churches won't.

I also think you're being extremely optimistic if you think the evangelical/conservative movement in Latin-American Christianity will be waning in a generation.

[John]

(I also am disgusted that those people on the left who agree with Bush on this issue aren't willing to say so - party politics make me fucking sick, if you agree with the guy, say so & let your yes be yes, anything else comes from the devil, etc)

[dieblucasdie]

Well this bill really pleases almost no one--we're still getting that wall, after all.  In this case "comprehensive" means "contradictory."

I'm not sure I buy your "family" argument.  Sure the Right talks about family a whole lot, but it's usually coded pro-life talk, and people know that.  Ask people who voted for Kerry if they think the nuclear family is essential to American life, and you'll get a whole lot of nods.

[John]

Well this bill really pleases almost no one--we're still getting that wall, after all.  In this case "comprehensive" means "contradictory."

I'm not sure I buy your "family" argument.  Sure the Right talks about family a whole lot, but it's usually coded pro-life talk, and people know that.  Ask people who voted for Kerry if they think the nuclear family is essential to American life, and you'll get a whole lot of nods.

yeah but who besides assholes like me are actually gonna say "no, the family's a failure & is probably on its way out," people'll look at you like you were from Mars. The point is one of rhetorical coding, and the G.O.P. owns the word "family," which means that voters with whom that word resonates believe Repulicans when they say family & tend to think Democrats are saying it to win votes

[John]

also please don't remind me about the wall because it makes me want to kill myself

[dieblucasdie]

Well this bill really pleases almost no one--we're still getting that wall, after all.  In this case "comprehensive" means "contradictory."

I'm not sure I buy your "family" argument.  Sure the Right talks about family a whole lot, but it's usually coded pro-life talk, and people know that.  Ask people who voted for Kerry if they think the nuclear family is essential to American life, and you'll get a whole lot of nods.

yeah but who besides assholes like me are actually gonna say "no, the family's a failure & is probably on its way out," people'll look at you like you were from Mars. The point is one of rhetorical coding, and the G.O.P. owns the word "family," which means that voters with whom that word resonates believe Repulicans when they say family & tend to think Democrats are saying it to win votes

Fair enough, though I think this is mainly a 90s CW and it's on its way out.  "Family" is about every third word of Edwards' and Obama's mouths, for example.  Republicans have tied themselves so closely to "National Security" over the past 7 years that the game has changed substantially, and the current crop of GOP candidates ain't about to change that.  As the blogs have noted, Rudy has more divorces under his belt than the entire Democratic field combined.

eta:  To be fair, the wall wasn't exactly Bush's fault--had he pushed immigration through in '02 when he was at his peak we would have gotten a better bill; now every hard-right jackass in the House feels like they can take him on.

[jebreject]

One of my many friends named Frank is in the National Guard and spent several months sweeping the Arizona desert for endangered lizards while his buddies worked on building that wall.  I don't really have a point, though.

[John]

fucking building walls to keep immigrants out

so Goddamn depressing

this country deserves any bad thing it gets in the wake of such an affront to decency

[jebreject]

I'm with ya.  FWIW, I think Frank is too.

[cosimo]

America: the new old Germany

[dieblucasdie]

[furnhusch]

also please don't remind me about the wall because it makes me want to kill myself

A decent wall between Canada and the US might've stopped tuberculosis-guy from making it across the border.

[FreddyKnuckles]

fuking canucks