Delicious links

[dieblucasdie]

In fairness most of the people who enjoy that song "ironically" are just trying to hide the fact that they love that song, no qualifications.

[Babar]

where is this interview, i can't see it in the links,

x-post and blucie is right.

[coldforge]

In fairness most of the people who enjoy that song "ironically" are just trying to hide the fact that they love that song, no qualifications.

I'm not sure I really agree with this line. If you want to talk about disingenuity on the part of people who loudly sing along to 'Sweet Caroline' and 'Don't Stop Believing' in bars, I don't ever really encounter people who say, 'I love this song—it's so fucking stupid!', as opposed to, 'Oh my god, no, I really LOVE this song! It's like, my favorite!'—but that make you think they would nevertheless not really want to be lumped in with the 45 year-old phone salesmen from New Jersey who actually go see Journey play.

I'm sure they do love the song, but I think they love the song because of the associations they've formed on it in the media they consume and in the parties they go to. I think 'Sweet Caroline' is a great example of what I'm talking about, because, as was pointed out to me in conversation a couple weeks ago, it wasn't that massively popular in context: its current popularity and place in people's heads doesn't derive from the fact that it was an incredibly popular song that became a classic, it derives from its sort of second life, or rebirth, as a stadium/sports event/wedding singalong.

So whether it speaks good or ill of folks, I don't think that the relationship of many younger people to 'Don't Stop Believing' has as much in common with the relationship of most people on this board to the music that they like. I think it's overlaid with those people's relationship to slightly more ghettoized contexts in which they experience it, with the parties they attend, or the stadium events they play it at, or the tv shows in which it's played—played, I should note, to evince one manner or another of ironic or nostalgic feeling.

I do find it interesting that half the people who discuss this phenomenon condemn the people in question for either lacking the ability to genuinely relate to music and the willingness to subsume their musical experience to their social and behavioral ones, or for duplicity and the inability to admit that they like something unfashionable—but that there's a distaste to it in either case.

[dieblucasdie]

In fairness most of the people who enjoy that song "ironically" are just trying to hide the fact that they love that song, no qualifications.

I'm sure they do love the song, but I think they love the song because of the associations they've formed on it in the media they consume and in the parties they go to. I think 'Sweet Caroline' is a great example of what I'm talking about, because, as was pointed out to me in conversation a couple weeks ago, it wasn't that massively popular in context: its current popularity and place in people's heads doesn't derive from the fact that it was an incredibly popular song that became a classic, it derives from its sort of second life, or rebirth, as a stadium/sports event/wedding singalong.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "ironically."  I wasn't thinking of say, frat boys who get drunk and sing along with it at a bar or sports stadium.  I think that kind of enjoyment is rather earnest, actually.  I was more thinking of a douchebag hipster type who would never admit to liking Journey but fucking loves it when Girl Talk samples them. 

You're right about the context mattering, though, that graf is quite insightful and I certainly don't think it's wrong for people to encounter and enjoy music that way.  If anything, it's more of an honest engagement than surfing mp3 blogs 10 hours a day.

[coldforge]

I was more thinking of a douchebag hipster type who would never admit to liking Journey but fucking loves it when Girl Talk samples them. 

Oh. Well, I guess I didn't know those people actually existed in the world. What's a graf?

[Andrew_TSKS]

paragraph.

[coldforge]

Oh. Yes, it WAS insightful! Graf. Graf! I feel like a journalist.

[John]

my standard line on so-called ironic appreciation is that enjoying music = not actually that different from enjoying sex, and nobody ever had an ironic boner, nahhmean

[Wally]

I've never knowingly heard a journey or girl talk song, although I'd be willing to give them both a try. The first time I heard Sweet Carolina, which I thought was a Neil Young song, was in the film Beautifull girls. I still sing it to myself occasionally, and when it plays in my head I find it quite beautiful and all the good conotations I have with that film are in that song. If I heard it without Noah Emmerich and Tiimothy Hutton yodeling it, i think I'd still like it.

[Andrew_TSKS]

haha wally it's not neil young it's neil DIAMOND. so similar, and yet SO DIFFERENT.

for the record, "Beautiful girls" is where i heard it first too.

[Good Intentions]

my standard line on so-called ironic appreciation is that enjoying music = not actually that different from enjoying sex, and nobody ever had an ironic boner, nahhmean

You were this close to being heckled in Auckland by some young men shouting 'I've got an ironic boner!', you know that? Please count it in their favour that they did not actually follow through with their plan.

[theothermike]

Ironic Boner, Catholic Relativism... this board has been spitting out some pretty great ideas for terrible band names lately.

[Wally]

haha wally it's not neil young it's neil DIAMOND. so similar, and yet SO DIFFERENT.

for the record, "Beautiful girls" is where i heard it first too.

haha, woops, and I have heard neil young but not neil diamond.

[WhereTheSlimeLive]

for the longest time I thought they were the same person

[elpollodiablo]

They are. Neil Diamond is just Neil Young without the chronic back pain.

[Andrew_TSKS]

...and the epilepsy.

[John]

Neil Diamond is just Neil Young without the prostitute disfigurement.

[elpollodiablo]

Goddammit that should've been MINE

[Wally]

Miles, you're losing your touch.

[elpollodiablo]

Let's be honest Dom, I never had it

[Wally]

That maybe true, but there have been times we've all been drunk or stoned enough to believe you did.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Two recent links I have comments on:

1) The Post book review section folding: I think this has a lot less to do with people not reading as many books than it has to do with people not reading as many newspapers. I really think the internet is killing the daily periodical, slowly but surely.

2) That Wardruna link is pretty awesome. I really dig what Ghaal and Einar are doing with that band.

[Illest Waffle]

Go here
http://lab.andre-michelle.com/swf/fl10/ToneMatrix.swf

Copy this, Righ click and paste THERE ^
65600,32800,16400,32800,66564,0,0,1028,65536,0,264,0, ;65536,0,0,64

[Maaik]

I could play with that thing for hours.

[Ignatius]

Go here
http://lab.andre-michelle.com/swf/fl10/ToneMatrix.swf

Copy this, Righ click and paste THERE ^
65600,32800,16400,32800,66564,0,0,1028,65536,0,264,0, ;65536,0,0,64

You Weirdo.