but, you are aware that there's an invention called Television

[elpollodiablo]

I thought so. He's not meant to be playing the Herc character tho, right?

[hannah]

No, Rankin is still part of the cast.

[elpollodiablo]

You didn't think of Zupan immediately when introduced to the Herc character in the first season, nny?

[nonotyet]

I didn't! but also it has been a long time since I saw Murderball. I also think that I was just caught up in my unconditional love for the character to make any connections. Is the Zupan correlation a bad thing or a good thing, according to you?
 
and Street is moving in with Herc! Which means more Herc! Which means wooooooooooo

[hannah]

Something stupid about FNL: Jesse Plemons (Landry) and Glenn Morshower (Landry's dad) look so much alike that sometimes I find it distracting!

[nonotyet]

YES THEY DO

(edit sorry I'm just really excited)

[elpollodiablo]

Actually I think most of the child/relation pairing is pretty believable.

And I don't know how I feel about Herc. I thought he was sort of hammy in se. 1, I guess I'll wait and see in se. 2.

Really I've found myself able to be pretty generous with FNL in every respect. It's just really charming.

[dieblucasdie]

Man. I have watched the first 5 episodes of this season of Dexter.  Am I jsut gonna be pissed at the cliffhanger?  Man.  It is quite good, though.

There's no cliffhanger.  Just a lot of craziness.  They finished the season before the strike. 

[El_Josharino]

So this Dexter thing y'all are talking about. Will I like it? If so, why?

[girl]

So this Dexter thing y'all are talking about. Will I like it? If so, why?

I've asked this question recently and also earlier this year.  I'm working on the first season now. I saw the first four episodes--I'm not quite sure what I think of it yet, but it might be winning me over a bit.

[heather marie]

Guys, don't tell Richard this, but it's SO much easier watching The Wire when he isn't around because he's not going "OMG BEST PART EVER OMG THIS IS GENIUS OMG"

[dieblucasdie]

especially since he's always doing that at the parts where you get to see Lt. Daniels' ass.

[heather marie]

oh god it's so terrifying

[lastclearchance]

THIS WHOLE POST HAS SPOILERS THROUGH THE END OF SEASON FOUR OF THE WIRE. FURTHERMORE THE COLORED CHUNKS ARE SPOILERS FOR SEASON FIVE, WHICH I HAVE LABELED IN DETAIL BASED ON SOURCE AND TYPE.   BE WARNED! THE LABELS ARE IN BLACK SO YOU CAN DETERMINE WHAT TO AND NOT TO READ BASED ON YOUR OWN SPOILER PREFERENCES; E.G. IF YOU'VE SEEN THE PROMOS BUT DON'T WANT OTHER SPOILERS THEN EVERYTHING IN WHITE AND GREEN IS OKAY! I HAVE ALSO LABELED THE CARRIAGE RETURNS IN THE SPOILER SECTIONS WITH A ¶ SO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE HIGHLIGHTING IF YOU ARE USING FIREFOX. IN IE THE ¶s ARE FUCKED UP BUT THE GLOW PRETTY MUCH INDICATES BY EXCLUSION WHERE THE TEXT IS.

I HOPE THIS IS CLEAR BECAUSE THE POST TOOK ME A REALLY LONG TIME TO FORMAT. I DIDN'T INTENTIONALLY PICK RED AND GREEN FOR A HOLIDAY THEME BUT IT SORT OF WORKED THAT WAY. THE CAPS LOCK IS GETTING A LITTLE EXCESSIVE MAYBE BUT IT IS 3:40AM SO I DON'T CARE.

(n.b. these are my sources: youtube; imdb; aicn (contains casting spoilers and four episode summaries); i have seen no non-promotional footage)

I trust Simon, Burns, and the show's writers almost completely to tell a believable and "true" story, but promo spoilers only: the promos somewhat worry me. They seem like wishful thinking for superfans who have come to love the show, at the expense of its commitment to journalistic integrity as fiction. I'd love to see Bubs clean up, for example, but they had better sell that shit to me. And McNulty drinking again, and Omar still on the streets, and, and...¶
¶
There are certainly ways to explain all of these developments. It makes sense that Bubs' cleanup would follow from the fallout of Sherrod's death, his feelings of guilt and responsibility, and his attempted suicide (the hospitalization from which will clean out his system and maybe give him a fresh start). And if McNulty gets too caught up in the Stansfield case, he could certainly turn into the same guy from season one who will fuck anybody over to take down the big target. And maybe Omar just can't leave the game. But whom is he going at in the promo? And why? Are Snoop and Chris going to kill Omar's grandma in episode 501 or some shit? I can't imagine being satisfied with season 5 if Omar doesn't die or else get the hell out of Baltimore. He's way too high profile after that last heist.¶
¶
Maybe I'm just worried that all the b-players are going to get a short shrift. What are the storylines we know are going to be in play? Freamon's unit is going after the Stanfield Organization. The Greeks are involved. imdb cast listing spoilers only (If Spiros meeting with Prop Joe at the end of season four wasn't enough indication, our FBI friends, as well as Sergei, will be showing up.) But we don't know how connected that will be to Freamon's investigation or to Stanfield, who is certainly watching his supply. We've got the whole newsroom storyline. With the media storyline we will almost certainly get scandal; promo spoilers only: Carcetti's press conference may point to on-point coverage of the victims of the drug war (or maybe something completely different). You all, and others, have convinced me that Randy's story is done (and that Colvin's and Namond's probably are too), which disappoints me but I guess makes sense. aicn spoilers: Furthermore none of the three (Maestro Harrell, Robert Wisdom, Julito McCullum) are listed as regulars or guests in the first four episodes.¶
¶
We're definitely going to see plenty of Michael's corner(s?). ¶
¶
promo spoilers only: We've got Omar exacting revenge on somebody. We've got Bubs cleaning up. We're going to get McNulty's and Russell's relationship deteriorating (although that probably won't take up much screentime because a lot of that can be implied with only a little). imdb casting spoilers only: Avon is going to be back. Who fucking knows for what at this point? ¶
¶
I almost wonder whether Cutty's story is finished; what else is there to say, and how will it fit with everything else in the season?¶
¶
aicn spoilers: aicn doesn't list Chad Coleman either so I think I'm right on this.¶
¶
What am I forgetting?¶
¶
The other big question is how will Simon frame his big pedantic statement. A lot of people I discussed the show with (not on LPTJ) hated on the NCLB-bashing for being excessive (I disagree) but if he's trying to exhort the people who work in the media to make people pay attention to the realities around them, this season is going to completely dwarf that. I can't imagine the newsroom storyline being that interesting unless the Sun employees start pushing hard-hitting coverage. (What would McNulty do?) Those folks are obviously going to get fucked over for it (it wouldn't be real, and it definitely wouldn't be the Wire, if it were any other way) but maybe the coverage will succeed in getting the requisite public outcry that Simon claims (quite rightly) never occurs. That's an idealistic season that I could potentially get behind. promo spoilers only: The Carcetti press conference could support this theory.¶
¶
Of course, without the money to make the change nothing is going to happen, so either the outcry is so great that people will accept a tax hike (yeah, right) or Clay Davis gets taken down and his coffers end up funding the City of Baltimore. (I'm kidding about the money, imdb spoilers only: but actually the fall of Clay Davis is really the only storyline I can project that would credibly include Avon Barksdale, so maybe there's something there.)¶
¶
aicn spoilers: According to the episode summaries, the detail definitely probes Davis further, but Avon returns for a plotline in which Marlo strikes some sort of deal with him. Really? That's what he's coming back for? Really?¶
¶
The pressure is on, of course, because now that David Simon has spent four seasons illustrating urban life in Baltimore (and by extension America) the implicit expectation is that he'll have a solution at the end. To an extent the entire series has been instructive in this way; every time that a system fails an individual is an indictment of that system. Nevertheless, I think there's an expectation that things will end, at the very least, on a higher note than season four. (What a god-awfully depressing series finale that would have been.) I don't remember the end of The Corner that well, but The Corner spoiler: the appearance of the real Fran, DeAndre, etc. at the end sort of provided a hopeful coda to the mini-series' otherwise bleak (as I remember it) ending.¶ 
¶
I guess what I'm wondering is how a desire for narrative resolution will mesh with the seemingly contradictory desire for continued journalistic integrity. David Simon's bleak vision has always been tempered by humor and hope (except maybe the end of season four†). But the real conflict in the show is man vs. system, and narrative closure implies a resolution to (a victory in?) the conflict. Lack of closure would, in this case, simly imply a victory of the system, and even McNulty's and others' successes at getting around the system don't really affect the system noticeably or substantially; by their very extra-systematic nature they are the exceptions that prove the rule. So are we going to get a mediated victory? Continued exceptionalism (which, admittedly, has all been building toward...something)? Is everything going to go to shit for everyone? Are we going to spend years hoping David Simon comes back and makes that theoretical Hispanic-influx-focused season six, like we're Browncoats or something?¶
I'm really interested in everyone's thoughts as we count down to the season five premiere.

†The collective bleakness of Bodie's death, Sherrod's death, Bubs's attempted suicide, Randy's fate, Carver's and Prez's failures, and Dukie's fate (Michael's fate was already pretty clear at that point) far outweighed, for me at least, what little humor and hope was concurrent. Though to be fair, the first time I watched season four, I somehow skipped episode 410 without realizing it; that episode had the following events, which moderated the general tone of the end of the season:

* Bubs's revenge on Herc via the car stop
* Clay Davis's scheming (personally as much as I hate him I'm impressed with not only the cleverness but also the brazenness of his scheming)
* Namond's stay on the bench in the Western
* Burrell's ill-fated (and ultimately sort of comic) attempt to impress Carcetti with stats
* a clean McNulty at dinner with Bunk and their respective sons (and his brief encounter with Elena)
* Bodie and Poot's reflective conversation (which, with Bodie's conversation with McNulty in 413, foreshadowed, and thus (slightly) prepared the viewer for, Bodie's death)
* Chris's brutal yet uncomfortably satisfying pounding of Michael's step-dad

[dieblucasdie]

It turns out Bunk is Omar's father.

edit:

But yeah, I'll read/respond to that whole madness you got going on there later, but I just came to this thread to ask if the HBO superfans are as jacked about Recount as I am.  The highly-praised script is by Danny Strong (yesssss, that Danny Strong!), and at this point I'm basically convinced that Dern can do no wrong.  And her in the Katherine Harris role?  OMG.

[elpollodiablo]

Yeah, that looks... pretty good? Honestly I hadn't heard a thing about it.

lcc what the fuck is up with that post. Are you just collecting spoilers from around the internet or what.

[nonotyet]

I am starting The Wire season 4 tonight and guess what

I AM NOT GOING TO READ ANY SPOILERS

THAT IS HOW MUCH I LIKE THIS SHOW

the end 

[Andrew_TSKS]

yeah, i'm not reading any of the spoilers lcc posted.

[lastclearchance]

lcc what the fuck is up with that post. Are you just collecting spoilers from around the internet or what.

the white is so people who haven't seen season four don't get spoiled.
the green is so people who refuse to watch the season five promos (are there any like that here?) don't get spoiled.
the casting stuff i just end up hearing about from random places; i just localized it all to imdb for simplicity's sake.
the only real "spoilers" are the things from aicn, and i wrote my whole thing before i even saw that article, so the aicn stuff mostly comments on/corrects my earlier thoughts.
and there's a stray The Corner spoiler in there.
I am just trying to look out for everybody. But I think I have shot myself in the foot as far as actual discussion goes.
I'm not collecting spoilers, and i sort of wish i hadn't read the aicn article, but i can't really unread it, so there you go.

[Andrew_TSKS]

haha well in that case i WILL read your post.

and dude, all i really have to say is this: you really think simon has to come up with some sort of happy ending because the series is ending? no fucking way. the ending is going to be bleak as fuck.

[lastclearchance]

bump

[lastclearchance]

haha well in that case i WILL read your post.

and dude, all i really have to say is this: you really think simon has to come up with some sort of happy ending because the series is ending? no fucking way. the ending is going to be bleak as fuck.

i was sort of thinking out loud. i don't actually expect a happy ending, no. i was just speculating as to the nature of the last arc, and where it would leave our characters, and how that would say what simon wants to say about baltimore and about america. spoilers through season four only: Season five is going to start with a detail and a case, just like every season except season four, and I anticipate that just like every season except season four, but especially since it's the last season, it's going to end with the detail bringing in the case (by which I of course mean "whatever they can get that will fly in court"). So the bleakness of season four isn't going to repeat itself, at least not in that way.

speculation based on season five promos (no other spoilers): It's certainly possible that Bubs will fail but I think at this point he has to get clean or die. Or get clean and then in the last episode get high again. There's no room in his story for staying at status quo.

Omar I still think needs to die.

One way this could play out is, Marlo gets taken down (by violence or by the law) and the crown comes to rest on Michael's head. Especially with the travels of Andre's ring in season four from Marlo to Michael...This of course would leave plenty of room for bleakness.

But the stakes are higher for everyone this season. Daniels could fall thanks to politics; Carver could fall with him. McNulty is, I hope, going to become incredibly unlikeable (to the viewer. Everyone in The Wire's Baltimore already hates McNulty). The Greeks are back so we're up the food chain on the drug end, and we're looking at a mayor running a deficit who may be shooting for governor in a year, and we're looking at the media as a wide net cast over all of this (only not really because the newspaper is just another system). To borrow the show's tagline, it's all connected. Most of the tangential stuff is not going to be in this season, so we're really looking at a bunch of tightly interlocked pieces that make up this living city.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I guess my point is I can't imagine how everything would all go completely to shit even if Simon wanted it to.

When I first started thinking about season four I conceptualized it and season five as of a piece, because there was not the same casework resolution as the other seasons. Then I realized that season four is a representation of what happens without good police. McNulty was humping a car, solving a church robbery, and helping get Bodie killed; Bunk was looking for a lost body; Freamon was helping Bunk; Kima bailed on the detail, got pranked, and solved a homicide. Daniels was caught up in the politics. Carver was the only police all season really, and everything else developed out of that negligence.

Or maybe more accurately, season four was about each character's attempt to go it alone, which explains why it was so bleak--if you have limited success fighting a system as a tightly knit detail, try doing it on your own.

By contrast, season five seems to be gearing up for a lot of collaboration. Granted, every collaborator is probably going to stab every other one in the back--again, this is The Wire we're talking about here--but I think that's what I mean about not only the interconnectedness but also how high the stakes are. Do I think they'll ever arrest the Greek (let alone get him successfully prosecuted)? No. But if they ever were going to, season five would be the time.

Maybe I'm just too excited for the season to start so I just have to type it out.

[Andrew_TSKS]

i've got a lot to say to that but i'm not in the mood right now. i'll get back to it.

[dieblucasdie]

S5 Wire spoiler:

The first seven episodes from the final season (debuting Jan. 6) just landed on my lap, and here's what I can tell you: McNulty (Dominic West) is back on the job, married to Oscar fave Amy Ryan, and a complete and utter basket case. He's drinking and womanizing harder than ever and rarely answers calls from home. Meanwhile, the city has no money to pay for investigations or even overtime, and the way the frustrated McNulty deals with the situation will Blow. Your. Mind.
 


This is going to be crazy.  I don't really have much speculation to offer up other than that this is going to be awesome.

[elpollodiablo]

What the fuck do you mean they just landed on your lap!? Get those fucking things on torrent, man!

*btw, totally called it w/r/t McNulty but so did a lot of other people