What-ography?!?

[Good Intentions]

The Baltic countries are considered Northern European, right? Germany, Poland Switcherland, the Czech Repulbic and Slovakia would be Central Europe, with Italy, Greece and the Balkans as Southern Europe, perhaps Turkey as well. France, Britain and everything to the west of that would be Western Europe.

How standardised is this division? I'm quite interested in seeing how the boundaries are made, mostly in how countries have multiple memberships: Poland is obviously both Baltic and Central European, but also clearly not Northern Europe, which means you need a sense of Baltic meaning 'bordering the Baltic Sea' and a sense of Baltic 'a subset of Northern Europe' (according to wikipedia, the 'real' use of the term). I dunno, I really find questions like this fascinating.

Especially fascinating when I should be busy writing and essay.

[Doctor Bob]

Baltics are Northern, yes.  Germany might be more Western than Central, even allowing for reunification.  I'd probably consider Italy both Southern and Western, which is the nub of the issue- most countries could be in more than one category.  Ireland is both Western (the last night club before New York, and all that) and Northern (the rain).

And then there's the fact that the North/South divide is seen as a socio-cultural one as well as a geographical one- the hard-working Protestant North, the lazy Catholic South.  This is partly why Ireland is sometimes referred to as the most northerly Mediterranean country in Europe (it sure isn't the weather!).

I should dig out another quote from a European musician which would be relevant here- it's from the programme notes to a Gabriele Mirabassi Trio gig here in 2003.  I don't think it's online and I don't have it to hand.  It's all about the importance of borders in establishing (musical) identities.  Leave it with me.

EDIT: Found it-

Given the diversity of the European musical heritage of folk, jazz, classical and contemporary - and especially its ethnic or cultural differences - Mirabassi concurs that European jazz musicians are better placed than American ones to explore fresh options. "You know, I think that the main characteristic that we have and the Americans don't are borders. Here you cannot drive for more than seven hours without crossing several borders, with people who speak different languages, or dress in another way, a completely different nature, climate, mentality. And this is a daily experience. European."
The cultural diversity available in Europe is a fortunate circumstance for artists there, especially musicians. And it's exemplified, he feels, in Rabih Abou-Khalil's quintet; one is American, one is Lebanese living in Germany, one is French and the remaining two are Italian. "We have so many things in common," he adds, "but mainly we are completely different, radically different, and these influences are part of a daily experience. And the more I go on and travel and meet people everywhere in Europe, the more I discover my own identity."

http://www.musicnetwork.ie/intmirab.php

[Good Intentions]

Baltics are Northern, yes.  Germany might be more Western than Central, even allowing for reunification.

The Germans don't seem to agree.

[andronicus]

Germans love the idea of Mitteleuropa because it's a perspective by which they are clearly the dominant state in their region.

[elpollodiablo]

Look we all clearly know things about Germany

[coldforge]

THE GERMANS DON'T SEEM TO AGREE

[alex]

I grew up thinking of "Eastern Europe" as "anything behind the Iron Curtain" (a concept that was pretty tangible for me for a little bit longer than the iron curtain officially existed, since it took a couple of years before all of the remainings of barbed wire were removed in the forest near my grandparents' house), but such a definition clearly stopped making sense a long time ago - the countries that would have been the most obviously Eastern European countries (Hungary, then-Czechoslovakia, etc.) then are not at all considered as such anymore, and for good reason. I couldn't say that I go by a very precise definition of what Eastern Europe entails now, so I wouldn't necessarily say that referring to a Baltic country as "Eastern Europe" is false, just very misleading.

Anyway, I really came here to post these:





Since edison balked at coming to visit me and our friend mmmaria at the last minute and under a flimsy pretext (job interview, yeah right), we decided to spend the weekend with Polly instead, who is a much more affectionate character to hang out with anyway. That's me and her, above.

[edison]

Looks like you made the right choice! (Glad to see you seem to be getting better, too)

[FreddyKnuckles]

Took these at the tidal basin.  Pretty spiffy time of year here.

[elpollodiablo]

Awesome pics, Fred

Are those cherry blossoms?

[Andrew_TSKS]

dogwoods, i think.

[Greg Nog]

Doesn't DC have some kind of big cherry-blossom thing?

A googlin' tells me that yes, it does.

Freddy, I'll always think of you as the Sakura to dieblucas's Ryu.

[DCDave]

Def. Cherry Blossoms. 

[FreddyKnuckles]

yeah its the cherry blossom thing.  It was pretty cool.  Dave, if you go, I would recommend going as early in the morning as you can wake up.  Unless you like being surrounded by 10,000 Europeans.

[elpollodiablo]

Heh. We have a copse of cherry trees near the river here on campus, and they're just about breathtakingly beautiful this time of year.

[DCDave]

yeah its the cherry blossom thing.  It was pretty cool.  Dave, if you go, I would recommend going as early in the morning as you can wake up.  Unless you like being surrounded by 10,000 Europeans.

That is the precise reason why I do not go.

[Wally]

yeah its the cherry blossom thing.  It was pretty cool.  Dave, if you go, I would recommend going as early in the morning as you can wake up.  Unless you like being surrounded by 10,000 Europeans.

That is the precise reason why I do not go.

Hey! You should consider yourself fortunate to be surrounded by half a dozen of us. Teaching you which ones the salad fork and every damn ting.

[DCDave]

yeah its the cherry blossom thing.  It was pretty cool.  Dave, if you go, I would recommend going as early in the morning as you can wake up.  Unless you like being surrounded by 10,000 Europeans.

That is the precise reason why I do not go.

Hey! You should consider yourself fortunate to be surrounded by half a dozen of us. Teaching you which ones the salad fork and every damn ting.

Also, not tipping.

[Wally]

yeah its the cherry blossom thing.  It was pretty cool.  Dave, if you go, I would recommend going as early in the morning as you can wake up.  Unless you like being surrounded by 10,000 Europeans.

That is the precise reason why I do not go.

Hey! You should consider yourself fortunate to be surrounded by half a dozen of us. Teaching you which ones the salad fork and every damn ting.

Also, not tipping.

Actually, that's just us brits, those bloody continental europeans never really caught up to us on that one.

edit- Actually I'm not sure about that. I just know I don't tip.

[alex]

Also, not tipping.

You mean paying service sector workers a full income so they don't have to depend on the gratuity of patrons?

But yeah, tipping's actually common in most of continental Europe (only exception I can think of off the top of my head being France) as far as I know, just not usually your 20% deal, and it's more of a custom than an obligation.

[DCDave]

Also, not tipping.

You mean paying service sector workers a full income so they don't have to depend on the gratuity of patrons?

But yeah, tipping's actually common in most of continental Europe (only exception I can think of off the top of my head being France), just not usually your 20% deal, and it's more of a custom than an obligation.

Sorry, I meant not tipping when you come to America.

[alex]

Oh okay, sorry. Yeah, I'm not going to defend that.

[Wally]

Does that mean I have to? 'Cause I really don't want to.

[coldforge]

Yeah.

[Wally]

Don't want to.