Campaign '08: Now With 100% More Hatin'!

[girl]

Yeah. I was never registered with a party, but then there was that election where I had to vote against Lieberman, so I changed to democrat. I mean, the plus side is that I get to vote more often, even though the new voting machines aren't as fun as the old ones. I think mostly I'm just rebelling against Obama since everyone else is rallying around him, plus I honestly feel he's too young to be President.

[Andrew_TSKS]

well, i have to point this out: john f. kennedy was 43 when he took office. bill clinton was 46 when he took office. if barack obama takes office in nov. 2008, he'll be 47.

also, i complain when people hate bands because everyone else likes them. the stakes are way higher where presidential candidates are concerned. so needless to say, i totally object to that reasoning as well.

i mean, i got nothin but love for ya, c, but those reasons are pretty weak.

[girl]

Yeah, mostly I'm just kidding about the not liking him because everyone else does, but he's making a stop in Hartford with Oprah, and that rubs me the wrong way entirely. I'd just like to be able to vote for someone instead of against someone. I'm still pissed at Edwards for "suspending" his campaign.

[SPACERACE]

obama would be insane not to do that.

[Nick]

no, it's an r&b ballad with music by will.i.am and lyrics by barack obama. it's a bunch of celebrities singing lines from an obama speech over a soft acoustic guitar thing with barack obama's voice being played in the background saying the lines as the singers sing them. it's kind of weird.

Oh man, he should put one of his speeches over the beat to "Eric B. Is President"! BARACK O. IS ON THE CUT. And then at his next speech he could slam the mic when he's done to make sure it's broke.

Or he could just enlist David Bowie and the two of them could sing a duet of "Changes" at the DNC.

[Andrew_TSKS]

Yeah, mostly I'm just kidding about the not liking him because everyone else does, but he's making a stop in Hartford with Oprah, and that rubs me the wrong way entirely. I'd just like to be able to vote for someone instead of against someone. I'm still pissed at Edwards for "suspending" his campaign.

see, i really do like barack obama. if hillary gets the nomination, and i vote for her (and i will if she does get the nomination, but i really hope she doesn't), it'll be me voting against the republican party candidate (most likely mccain). but if i vote for obama, i'll be voting FOR him. but i realize that may not necessarily be the case for you.

as far as the oprah thing... i don't see what's so bad about that. i have no beef with oprah.

[YojimboMonkey]

I imagine most candidates would love to get their ticket slotted in to the oprah magic housewife brainwashing hour.

Seriously though don't most of the candidates have celebrities of one kind or another repping for them? 

[girl]

I honestly don't want to get into a debate over this. My problem isn't with his politics, but with the icky feeling I get from everyone being "inspired" by him. I do, however, have a mental picture of him wearing an "Oprah's Book Club" sticker on his lapel. 

[Nick]

My problem isn't with his politics, but with the icky feeling I get from everyone being "inspired" by him.

I agree that his speeches are sort of manipulative, if that's what you're talking about. It's sort of awkward to be voting for him because then it's like you're falling into the  "hay guyz let's uh change some stuff and it'll be TOTALLY AWESOME, DUDE" trance, but in reality he's still the best candidate from a political perspective, regardless of how he chooses to run his campaign.

[slow west vultures]

i lol-ed when i heard this on the news.  mostly just becuase of the words hallmark channel.  but maybe its really more creepy than funny.  god, that photo of her looks like death itself

Hillary Clinton to air 90 minute town hall meeting on hallmark channel the night before super tuesday

maybe she'll get that crabby old lady from the shoebox cards to put in an appearance

also i had to add this in light of our earlier conversation (attn: Heather Marie) -this is from a comment on Advertising Age's article about the show

http://adage.com/campaigntrail/post?article_id=124783

From the Heritage Foundation (I know, a suspect organization if ever there was one) 46% percent of the 'poor' people in this country own their own homes. 80% of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36% of the whole US population enjoyed air-conditioning. Only 6% of poor households are overcrowded. Two-thirds have more than two rooms per person. The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor. Nearly 75% of poor households own a car, 31% own two or more cars. In addition to 46% of all poor households actually owning their own homes, 97% of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color TVs, 78% of poor households have a VCR or DVD player. 62% of all poor households have cable or satellite TV reception. 89% of 'poor' households own microwave ovens. More than 50% of them have a stereo. More than a third have an automatic dishwasher.


In short, even people classified as poor (62%) may be able to watch the Hallmark channel if its in their cable subscription.

Also, we may want to look at what poor really means in the US, as compared to what poor is in other industrialized countries, and hold the politicians accountable (yeah, right) for their ascertians; something along the lines of why John Edwards joined a hedge fund group to learn about the poor. Or Hillary's ascertian that the federal government is qualified to run health insurance (let alone anything else) efficiently and effectively. –Duane Andre, The Villages, FL

hahaha.  too perfect. 

[dieblucasdie]

no, it's an r&b ballad with music by will.i.am and lyrics by barack obama. it's a bunch of celebrities singing lines from an obama speech over a soft acoustic guitar thing with barack obama's voice being played in the background saying the lines as the singers sing them. it's kind of weird.

Oh man, he should put one of his speeches over the beat to "Eric B. Is President"! BARACK O. IS ON THE CUT. And then at his next speech he could slam the mic when he's done to make sure it's broke.

Or he could just enlist David Bowie and the two of them could sing a duet of "Changes" at the DNC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJtgEfIla0A

But yeah, I often think on how much better a place the world would be had we only elected Eric B. instead of Bush in '88.

[guanajuato]

Yeah, mostly I'm just kidding about the not liking him because everyone else does, but he's making a stop in Hartford with Oprah, and that rubs me the wrong way entirely. I'd just like to be able to vote for someone instead of against someone. I'm still pissed at Edwards for "suspending" his campaign.

you're just mad cuz he's not running as 'boy'.

[Thermofusion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJtgEfIla0A

awesome

But yeah, I often think on how much better a place the world would be had we only elected Eric B. instead of Bush in '88.

I keep reading that as "Eric Bogosian."  Who still would've made a better prez, especially if it'd been the crazy Eric "Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups!" Bogosian from Under Siege 2.

[elpollodiablo]

I'm still gonna vote for Clinton, cuz I think the big O doesn't have enough seasoning, plus his plans for the future are maddeningly vague.

And I don't care if he is a snake, I watched a bit of the republican debate and I still like ol' Johnny McCain about a million times better than all the rest of em combined

[jebreject]

I'm still gonna vote for Clinton, cuz I think the big O doesn't have enough seasoning, plus his plans for the future are maddeningly vague.

Dude, but Clinton is a fascist

[Andrew_TSKS]

http://adage.com/campaigntrail/post?article_id=124783

From the Heritage Foundation (I know, a suspect organization if ever there was one) 46% percent of the 'poor' people in this country own their own homes. 80% of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36% of the whole US population enjoyed air-conditioning. Only 6% of poor households are overcrowded. Two-thirds have more than two rooms per person. The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor. Nearly 75% of poor households own a car, 31% own two or more cars. In addition to 46% of all poor households actually owning their own homes, 97% of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color TVs, 78% of poor households have a VCR or DVD player. 62% of all poor households have cable or satellite TV reception. 89% of 'poor' households own microwave ovens. More than 50% of them have a stereo. More than a third have an automatic dishwasher.


In short, even people classified as poor (62%) may be able to watch the Hallmark channel if its in their cable subscription.

Also, we may want to look at what poor really means in the US, as compared to what poor is in other industrialized countries, and hold the politicians accountable (yeah, right) for their ascertians; something along the lines of why John Edwards joined a hedge fund group to learn about the poor. Or Hillary's ascertian that the federal government is qualified to run health insurance (let alone anything else) efficiently and effectively. –Duane Andre, The Villages, FL

hahaha.  too perfect.

how in the bloody hell are they defining poor? i could only afford to get cable in the last few months, and i made $20k last year, putting me something like $12k above the poverty line for a single person.

[Andrew_TSKS]

I'm still gonna vote for Clinton, cuz I think the big O doesn't have enough seasoning, plus his plans for the future are maddeningly vague.

And I don't care if he is a snake, I watched a bit of the republican debate and I still like ol' Johnny McCain about a million times better than all the rest of em combined

dude, as i said to milly earlier today about something completely unrelated, you are way too smart to seriously think something this stupid.

[elpollodiablo]

And you're way too much of a decent guy to generally act like a patronizing dickhead whenever someone espouses the slightest doubt about Obama's viability or endorses Clinton in any fashion

What it comes down to is I don't think Obama's the best candidate, so i will not be voting for Obama

[elpollodiablo]

I'm still gonna vote for Clinton, cuz I think the big O doesn't have enough seasoning, plus his plans for the future are maddeningly vague.

Dude, but Clinton is a fascist

And Obama's a whore


See I can cast meaningless aspersions too

[dieblucasdie]

There are definitely reasons one might think Clinton is the better candidate, but the idea that Obama's policy platform is any less defined just shows that you don't know shit about Obama *or* Clinton.  I agree with TSKS that the uncritical spouting of outdated conventional wisdom is beneath you.

[slow west vultures]

http://adage.com/campaigntrail/post?article_id=124783

From the Heritage Foundation (I know, a suspect organization if ever there was one) 46% percent of the 'poor' people in this country own their own homes. 80% of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36% of the whole US population enjoyed air-conditioning. Only 6% of poor households are overcrowded. Two-thirds have more than two rooms per person. The typical poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor. Nearly 75% of poor households own a car, 31% own two or more cars. In addition to 46% of all poor households actually owning their own homes, 97% of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color TVs, 78% of poor households have a VCR or DVD player. 62% of all poor households have cable or satellite TV reception. 89% of 'poor' households own microwave ovens. More than 50% of them have a stereo. More than a third have an automatic dishwasher.


In short, even people classified as poor (62%) may be able to watch the Hallmark channel if its in their cable subscription.

Also, we may want to look at what poor really means in the US, as compared to what poor is in other industrialized countries, and hold the politicians accountable (yeah, right) for their ascertians; something along the lines of why John Edwards joined a hedge fund group to learn about the poor. Or Hillary's ascertian that the federal government is qualified to run health insurance (let alone anything else) efficiently and effectively. –Duane Andre, The Villages, FL

hahaha.  too perfect.

how in the bloody hell are they defining poor? i could only afford to get cable in the last few months, and i made $20k last year, putting me something like $12k above the poverty line for a single person.

the rich retired persons definition of poor?  i guess the persons borrowing all those statistics from the Heritage Foundation - which i'm sure has a pretty specious definition of 'poor' aka somebody not in our tax bracket, so why the hell should we care about them.  i think if you just look at everythign from a statistical vantage point - and lump everyone into that statistical middle ground becuase they are part of our great american economic system, nobody looks that poor compared to other countries.  but that's just because you are looking at statistics and not the actual realities of peoples lives in america.  

oh man, and rereading that quote, and looking at the statistic about air conditioning. its just kind of ridiculous that a think tank would think so hard to come up with statistics of how 'poor people aren't poor' and those who complain about being 'poor' or those who advocate for their interests are missing the point that that they have it pretty well:  maybe this'll blow your mind - more people have air conditioning they did than in 1970.  so much for the rich just getting richer.  the democrats would send us all back to the swamp cooler age.  

[elpollodiablo]

There are definitely reasons one might think Clinton is the better candidate, but the idea that Obama's policy platform is any less defined just shows that you don't know shit about Obama *or* Clinton.  I agree with TSKS that the uncritical spouting of outdated conventional wisdom is beneath you.

All I know is what I've heard them say, brother. I've watched the debates, and I've watched some campaign speeches. I've read some articles and columns in various magazines. And I know much, much more about Clinton's stance on tax policy as regards the middle class, her belief in organized labor and the need to keep it strong, and her general energy policy (which is admittedly a little vague, but what the fuck)--and but so anyway I know much more about her and where she's coming from and her general plan of attack than I do about Obama. And really as the relatively new face, it's incumbent upon Obama to be more specific and expansive. I haven't seen in Obama all that everyone else claims to see--I don't think he's especially engaging or inspiring or charismatic (not that I think those things about Clinton) and I know next to nothing about the man. I like Clinton. I like the Clintons in general. I think they've (for the most part) got the best interests of my demographic at heart. I'd say I'm better-informed than say 50 or 60% of the primary voters. So if you and Andrew want to be petulant little whining fucktards about it, you can call me uninformed and ignorant all you want. But come March 5th, I'm voting Clinton. Stick it up your ass.

[Thermofusion]

Even as a increasingly passionate Obama supporter who finds Clinton generally intolerable, I've gotta side with Pollo for a sec:

What really ought to be beneath EVERYONE is calling somone stupid just because they like a particular candidate.  In a way, we're all stupid for buying into any politician's rhetoric.  To paraphrase that one South Park episode, we should all be suspicious of any candidate who has gotten this far, because god knows how much ass-kissing they've had to do to get here.

Last night I was throwing some back with a friend and we were comparing/contrasting the political ascendancy of Hillary Clinton to Damien from Omen III: The Final Conflict.  Well, just because I can draw parallels between the emergence of Hillary as the frontrunning candidate and the rise of the Antichrist doesn't mean I think someone is stupid should they disagree.  Besides, I'm atheist -- I don't have anything invested that's gonna be compromised should there turn out to be a 666 on the back of her scalp.

[diesel_powered]

What do the Clinton backers think about this?

I find her and her husband's Wal-mart connections distressing.

[elpollodiablo]

You wanna trace how people were making their money twenty years ago, there's gonna be more than enough shame to go around.